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Dirk A. van Mulligen

Hi Robert,

Finally someone sharing some of my personal observations on the 12th house/Pisces. Of course the last sign/house holds the element of completion. Which is something different from letting go of everything go or just plain suffering.

Signs/planets in 12 and planets in Pisces hold the potential of completion in this lifetime. Of creating personal fulfillment. We all hold the spark of G-d in ourselves and it is our mission to become like him. To create, however small, our own (piece of the) world. Just as G-d created the whole Universe and everthing in it.

The Pisces I know have a surprising nack to create their personal world around them. This does account for the sometimes erroneously interpretated wholeness as isolation. They can be whole and therefore are less dependent on others. Note the word 'can' by the way.

Astrologers around the world, please do give your clients and yourself a positive and empowering view on the 12th house/pisces. It is where your G-d given potential for fulfillment lies.

Best regards,

Dirk A. van Mulligen
Leiden, the Netherlands


Hi again Robert! How do we know which house a Planet is lord of? If Cancer is in my Eighth House then am I correct in interpreting that Moon is Lord of my Eighth House? Thanks and Namaskar


Hi Robert. In my progressed chart I have my True Node in the 12th house at 29 Cancer 45. How do I interpret this? I read your postings on Nodes and am still unsure. Many thanks for any insight you can provide - Vahana


Hi Dirk - Thanks for checking in. The 12th house is probably the most misunderstood, feared, and/or ignored house in astrology! Closure speaks louder than suffering! I agree the 12th sector/sign holds the promise of fulfillment for whatever within a larger view of a greater whole. I also have noticed that Pisces can create an entire universe in their inmost sea of consciousness, which can seem like isolation to others. They are solitary creatures, but there are benefits to be had by relaxing into solitude from time to time (some even call it - gasp - meditation!) And whether they use their mysterious way to come to higher realization or self-betrayal is entirely within their own self-generated karmas. Thanks for the "shout-out" to astrologers everywhere who read this to rise to the occasion!

Hi Aditya - You bring up an interesting distinction usually ignored by most astrologers, that of "rulers" versus that of "lords." As I learned from reading the works of teachers from previous centuries, there are rulers of signs, but lords of houses. With Cancer on the 8th, the Moon is the ruler of the house. However, any planet IN the 8th is the "lord" of that house. For example, I have Virgo on my 2nd house. That makes Mercury the ruler of the house. However, since I have Saturn in Virgo in the second house, Saturn is the "lord" of the house. The distinction is subtle, but you could say that while Mercury "rules" the second house (and even Saturn, which it disposes) Saturn transits and aspects directly govern the workings of my second house affairs. And this is probably grist for an article in itself. I trust my response has clarified more than confused the issue.


Hi Vahana - It shows you should be sensitive at this time in your life to the need to find closure in personal things that have kept you clutching or insecure while preserving the best of the past that offers you a worthwhile tradition. That said, there are probably other factors in your chart worthy of greater attention than the progressed nodes.


Hi Robert, Thanks for the clarification. I am happy you get good thoughts from most of the people coming to this site. I guess that gives you strength to answer each and every question. You do realise that you have filled my life with purpose and direction. Thank you for that and hope I can meet you sometime in the future. Namaskar


Thanks Robert, for your guidance. You are truly a teacher to us all! Vahana


Hi Robert-

I am familiar with 12th house, as I have Neptune in Scorpio there, with a Scorpio rising sign. In my experience, persons with strong planets in the 12th always has more to offer or more to gain from life than they'd previously believed. (it is hidden even from them) Tapping the essence & power of the 12th house can lead to unimaginable beauty, insights and deep inner wholeness. On the other had, secrets, denials & illusions can undermine one's life with this placement strongly afflicted.

Your site is marvelous; you really help people (Good 12th house karma)



Hi Aditya - Yes, our global community here is truly great. Otherwise I'd probably be at the beach! ;-) Thanks for telling me I've been helpful in guiding you toward dharma, and I also would enjoy meeting you sometime in the future.

Hi Vahana - Thanks for your kind words. Namaskarams.

Hi Pamela - Neptune in 12th has no doubt given you some interesting dreams! You're right about 12th house planets having a lot to offer. With Jupiter in my solar 12th with North Node, sometimes I've seen through the veil into the majesty of the infinite, quite to my surprise. Even once saw beyond the "clockwork universe" and that left me breathless. Wrote a poem about it a long time ago which I've been thinking I might publish here. Left me in awe of just how everything IS.

You're also right about the negatives, since in my own experience after a number of years of denial, self-betrayal, procrastination and ghosts of sorrows I never knew, the Eternal intruded into my rational mind (Jupiter/NN in Pisces opposed Saturn/SN in Virgo!) and sent it reeling from the contact with the previously unknown and unglimpsed karmas of countless past lives! (That's how my opposition from the Solar 6th/12th has manifested, in case anyone is wondering if the Solar chart has validity!) And thanks for your affirming my good 12th house karma. As long as I'm here until the larger "graduation day," all of us who serve need to generate good rather than disruptive Chi.


Hi Robert,

I find your clarification of the 12th house really resonates with me. Having the sun, moon, venus, mars and ascendant all in Pisces and three planets plus my south node all in the 12th house I have been searching for a more comprehensive explanation of this house, which doesn't involve that kind of fatalist view point I come across so often. Thanks for the additional insight!



So what does one glean from having the 12th house (or any house; I have a number of them) absolutely empty?

I love the level of articulation and wisdom of the folks that gather here -- the Wilkinsonians??????


Hi Rachel - It means that the ruler of the house is the planet governing the sign on the cusp. Thanks for the praise of those who visit the cantina. Probably more like "the Aquarians" since I named it for a reason. Of course, if you want to make it personal, then I suppose "the Hartleys" would be appropo, since that was my songwriting name. But "The Hartleys" sounds like a group out of "That Thing You Do," (great Tom Hanks movie!) and the early 60s happened a loooong time ago! We just need new descriptors for our radical times....

meghan ganser

Hi Robert- I have venus in capricorn in the 12th house- how would you interpret this? I love and require solitude and have difficulty reconciling that need with the needs of a life partner. Is this placement the undoing of any romantic relationships?


Hi, Robert
thank you for this site; it is so helpful. and thanks for this 12th house info.
I have a bundle pattern in the 12th - sun in virgo, venus, pluto, mars in leo, with a venus, mars, pluto conjunction. It's been very challenging.
If we choose our charts when we incarnate, what might be the spiritual purpose of this choice?


Hi Robert,

Your articles on both the 12th HOuse and on Sun Sign charts are great (because I feel Sun sign related things more than natal ones e.g. Saturn in Leo square my Sun in Taurus brought me home to take care of my mother) brithtime April 22, 1960.

Can you help me? right now Mars in Aries is my solar 12th house -- is it a good time to take up a new job (as I have an offer) and start new things, or not? why is self-betrayla, secret enemies, self-undoing behaviours associated with the 12th House?

You may have to write a longer article on the 12th! Your insights help me a lot Many thanks and much more.


Hi all, I've never analysed very often natal charts from solar sign perspective but I guess it could work, for mine its works although I am not a specialist in considering the house cusps, if the rising is the start of my sun sign or the position of my sign itself. But it is quite interesting to make these alternative charts considering the sun or the moon instead of the rising!
It is like looking at a glass or a computer from other sides or other perspectives; its all there, its all the same, but you just observe it from one particular side or limited perspective!

Considering 12th house, I am venus (rising chart) or uranus (solar chart). I have never analyse with my uranus, but I know well what means a 12th house venus. Its not a bad one. It makes me put love on a spiritual scale (althought when I had neptune over natal venus, thing got too much in the clouds and with a touch of depression). Now Venus in 12th likes to live in a quiet environmental, spiritual currents on the air, and in deep union with a sensible partner. it also makes me put my heart towards others in humble service, a kind of piscean venus :)


Hi Robert,

Saturn in Libra (11 degrees) is in my 12th within a ten degree conjunction with my asc (18 degrees). What is my karmic lesson and what is my reward? What is my soul trying to complete? It almost seems that Saturn is at home in 12th.

I don't know if you are in Europe at this point. But Godspeed, my friend. To quote, Justin Hayward: "Lovely to see you again, my friend. Walk along with me to the next bend."

In a way, you and the other people on this site, are walking along with me to the next bend in my life.

Blessings and Peace to all of you.



Robert -- I gave my birthdate as April 22, 1960 but forgot to mention that i am a Pices rising, at least that's what I strongly suspect I am since I don't have an exact birthtime.

thanks --Nancy


Hi Robert! Thank you for writing about the 12th house -- I'm always looking for more useful info on the 12th/Neptunian theme, with my NN and Uranus in the 12th and Sun and Mars conjunct Neptune in the 1st.

I have a question related to multiple transits/progressions involving the 12th house. I had Jupiter transit my 12th last year (in Scorpio), and I now have the progressed moon in my 12th with Jupiter in the 1st. Last year I had a lot of things end in my life. Now Jupiter is in my 1st, I theoretically should be having lots of new beginnings...but I still feel really in limbo. I'm wondering if the progressed moon in the 12th could be holding up the full expression of a new cycle, or whether it's more me not recognizing still other things that I ought to end. What do you think of how this kind of double transit/progression works, where one is already in the 1st and another still in the 12th? I really don't feel the amazing, exuberant Jupiter in Sag energy as I keep hearing I should be, as a Sag Sun!

Thank you for any insights! I'm interested not just for myself but also just to better understand these cycles to help others.


Hi Louise - I'll bet you understand Pisces/12th house energies! And of course you're welcome. There must be a productive way to interpret any astrological thing, or else be limited by our own lack of understanding. And I'm not into that.

Hi Meghan - Every planet has a positive and negative manifestation which is entirely up to us to master. You no doubt need solitude to sort things out, but it's not an "all or nothing" deal. Find time and space when you need to, while doing the dance of relating, not as a duty, but as a form of social elegance and refinement.

Hi Fran - You're welcome. It indicates a thousand things, more than we can fully discuss here. That said, it shows you're completing many things this lifetime within the complete protection of your training, service, and discipleship. It would also indicate your strength comes out at the end of a process, and you are a karmic witness for those in your world. Forever young, forever a distant wanderer, you should try to be more moderate, less critical and worried, and be the nobility of your Mars in Leo.

Hi Nancy - It's a great time to finish up old things and get ready to act quickly on opportunities that promise more effectiveness in the future. Still, your next cycle begins when Mars transits your Sun, so beware of "jumping the gun." As for the historical attributes of the 12th house re: secret enemies, etc., that's way beyond the scope of this comment stream. It has mainly to do with the cadent houses (3,6,9,12) as preparatory for the angular house expression, and works from concealment rather than directness. Emergence, Continuance, Submergence is more or less the way of the houses. And of course you're welcome.

Hi Irpsit - I don't really recommend using a Lunar chart for anything, since the Moon is derived secondary light. That's why we use the Sun instead of the Moon. And of course the Asc is our special function to bring forth out of everyone born on that day. Venus in 12th can be a very compassionate position.

Hi Helen - It shows you have many lessions to learn about self-confidence born of self-reliance. It also shows the ruler of your solar 4 and 5th houses is in the 12th, a place of behind the scenes activity. You are the refined elegant authority who brings mature closure to things, and when older will have a very evolved view of the whole of your life as well as the universal life. And thanks for the Moody memory. "no no no no he's on the outside, looking in..." We'll walk on indeed, together and separately. Just never forget "And we all shine on, like the Moon, and the stars, and the Sun, and we all shine on, and on and on and on..."

Hi Lisa - You ARE having new beginnings, but a) you're experiencing the past more than the present with P Moon in the 12th, and b) haven't let Jupiter do its RX thing, bringing you results of its first passage through Sag. However, you will experience more the sense of adventure over the Summer and Autumn. I suspect it's the usual Fire tendency for our tribes to get impatient with the pace of what is, since we're always anticipating what we energetically feel will be.


Robert... do you consider the 12th to hold the secrets of the soul, our past lives, the karmic "vault"? It always felt to me thus, with Pluto and more there
in my natal chart........ the deep........

Hope you're having a beautiful day.....D. } -----*


Thank You, Robert


Hi Diana - According to something I read decades ago, it is said the 4th house is the repository (destination at the end of life on Earth) of the body, the 8th the repository of the Soul, and the 12th the respository of the Spirit. I believe these are interconnected, with Soul the vehicle of Spirit and body the vehicle of Soul. The Eternal Spark that IS seeks embodiment in ever-denser frequency zones, and "clothes" itself first in higher feelings, then higher thoughts, then denser thoughts, then dense feelings, and finally this body. And yes, the 12th house is the zone of how past karmas have led to the here and now, and being the movie of our lives, definitely shows us a much larger view than we usually take, even on such things as "spirituality." In fact am having a great day. Already had watermelon for lunch! What's not to like? Thanks...

Hi Fran - Sure. You possess an exceptional aptitude as one of the "witnesses," a very important function in the human condition. As Saturn moves forward these next few months, I'll bet you get a whole new "authorship" of those energies, restructuring many things that will prove more an expression of your present than your past. Say goodbye to your rapidly fading past and welcome the guests who come, since they will offer you a form of dominion, and help you break lingering chains of obsolete limitations.


ahhhhhh yes.... the 12th house.

my venus & moon (gemini) reside in that house. jupiter (gemini) on 1st close to 12th.
born on the 12th day. i've come to think of that house as solitary confinement. (i've spent a lot of time by myself and like to)

its my personal undoing in love. with love. without love. once i love something it disappears. O THE UNDOING. my mother lives in severe denial of reality (my moon!).

i've come to think of it as sheer defeat. for or against me. it has given me the power of karma in that ... you can't keep much from me in way of secrets, something occurs and steps in and hands me the news.(gemini?) at the right place at the right time. its real eerie.
i've dealt a lot with secrets, lies, hidden agendas, cheaters. and i always have had many many many dreams... one or two prophetic. i have had dreams about the person sleeping next to me in bed. my dreams are crazy!

NAMASTE! Thank you Robert.


Hi Robert, it's Stevo. 12th house has been an interesting study for me ever since the Capricorn transits at the first of the year. CANCER rules my natal 12th. My natal AC is at 29. Lots of unexpected closures after the Mars-Pluto conjunction. Hidden enemies, etc. My progressed Moon is presently in mid CANCER. But since all of this has come to light during the Sat-Leo transit. Do our "progressed ACs" really mean anything? My progressed chart shows "Leo" ruling the 12th with the AC also at 29.

Thanks, Stevo


Hi Robyn - My sweetheart's got a Venus-Jupiter conjunction in Gemini in the 12th, and she loves her solitude, as well as the inspiration she gets when she's meditating. While she's had some sorrow from past loves gone south, she's very glad she's done with that karma and it's NEVERMORE, another 12th house attribute. (Take my woid on it!) She loved something that wasn't worthy of love, then found that years afterward, believing she could never find love, that in fact she could and did. To me, the 12th house never exactly finds finality in the sense our linear minds conceive of it. And she's a living example of finding a major victory after the appearance of defeat in the realm of relationships. She also knows everything, whether she wants to or not, as nothing can be concealed from the 12th house. And her meditations are exceptionally powerful, and that's not just my opinion!

Hi Stevo - Welcome back to the cantina. "You can check out any time you like but you can never leave..." You'll make a powerful decision when the Moon hits your Asc. It may take a couple of decades to fulfill, but you WILL find a fundamental realization that will infuse you life for 20 years to come. Saturn has set the structure for what your Moon will build in the future. The prog Asc is your prog sense of self, but it's in motion, so get fluid and take a wider point of view.


Dear Robert,

Thanks for the on spot comments as always. I have always felt the older the better, and that is the way my life has been. The best is yet to come!

As a certified Moody, I had the good fortune to meet Mike Pinder once. A dream come true! In fact, I'm listening to his LOST IN A LOST WORLD while I'm typing this post. LOST IN A LOST WORLD presents the problem, YOU AND ME is the answer.

As I was waiting for the Moody Blues, another Moody remarked that the Moody Blues is the "thinking man's band." Enough Said!




Thanks Robert! And Happy Mars in Aries to you!!! Mr. Red is in my 9th and on his way to the MC to hang with my Saturn. It's all about fire and air support on this end. And a little earth if necessary. I will however keep your thoughts about the "water". Obviously it's something best kept for the future. Needless to say, I will anxiously await your thoughts on the coming Mercury Rx. Venus transiting Cancer is under heavy watch.

Thanks again, Stevo


Hummm - interesting post.
You are so generous with your responses and your time so I'll make it easier on you ;)

I have libra on the cusp of 12th. So the 12th house could go either way (if I read properly): self-undoing OR closure.

My venus is in virgo in 10th... pain from love (yap)? Fear of love (yes)? Self-undoing from love...? I'm to fearfull so I stay away. However could I have Closure from (I'm assuming) past karma love if I just choose to serve the one I love? Chose to love without getting anything in return (I mean without Obsessing in getting the same devotion), just being happy serving? (This seems so dormat type of thing...) My south node: 8th house in cancer conj. saturn. So in past lifes I've overpowered others (and have been overpowered myself also...?) and have to learn how to take control out of the equation of love?
Am I'm making Any sense? I wanto to see the brighter side of my 12h house.
One more thing, my uranus in on the 11th house. Some house sistems put it on the 12th... (I like it better in the 11th because it explains my love of astrology - even though a 12th house uranus does make sense to me in some way.)
Past (lifes?): lack of freedom coming from love?
Help, help, help - how the hell do I read this?


Hi Helen - I was a fan from the first time I heard "Go Now," and remember them as "everybody's 6th favorite band" way back when. Always in the top 10, but usually the top spots were dominated by the Beatles, Stones, Who, Dylan, Beach Boys, 4 Seasons, Cream, Hendrix, Zeppelin, Traffic, Grateful Dead, Jefferson Airplane, Janis, or others of that level. But then, I dug Zappa, Captain Beefheart, Phil Ochs, Alice Cooper, and the Fugs before they were hip, so of course I would have been a Moody Blues fan. Great soundtrack growing up! They were truly the "thinking man's band."

Hi Stevo - Yes, with both Sun and Mars in Aries, I suspect things are about to break loose for me in some very big ways. Also entering my 9th about to hang with my Mercury on the MC in July, so I'll probably be juggling as fast as I can! Will be posting on coming Mercury Retrograde in a week or so.

Hi D. - Thanks for making it easy, since I hear "it don't come easy" if you want to sing the blues. Libra on the 12th shows imbalances or unfair perspectives create the most trouble for you. Shows you have to find the gentle moderate rhythm in achieving closure, and weigh things from many points of view. With Venus where it is, you wear your sorrow "on your sleeve," as it were, and worry way too much about small matters you think others are seeing when they may not be. Being a fuss-budget is definitely a way to throw you back on yourself.

I believe you fear love's imbalances more than you focus on what you're creating through constantly messing with things you could leave alone. True love is always an interactive proposition, where each dips deep into the common love, respect, and affection, finding what they want and need in their heart of hearts. Definitely stop measuring everything between you and others, and chalk a lot up to a thousand imbalances ultimately yielding a fair assessment. NN in Cap shows you need to take responsibility, and stop going to Cancer, since you generate loss by doing that. Let your values mature; stop caretaking others in ways they may not want or need. Definitely don't "take control" of anything to do with love, except your own willingness to do the dance, freed of power tripping and power trippers. Simple, eh?


Hi Robert,
Based on everything I have read here and elsewhere, I'd love some fresh perspective from you regarding my Uranus in Scorpio in the 12th. I often feel strongly about sticking to my hunches and one decision where I decided to go against my gut feeling turned out to be a big mistake. I also feel there is vast untapped potential but not sure how I am to uncover it and make something happen. The rulers of the 12th would be Mars in the 9th and Pluto in the 11th.

Keep doing what you're doing man and thanks a bunch,



Riiiiiight... simple :|

Thank you for your answer ;P ;)


Hi James - Well, you didn't give me much to work with, but Professor Robert will try to offer something relevant. ;-) Try not to judge your evolving process by one missed judgment, which may have "failed" but left you free for other things. Plus there are many things that just cannot be, whether we think they could in hindsight or not. I believe you need to go deeper into your heart knowledge, and not allow eccentric individualism to move you sideways. Synthesize what you feel into a larger vision, but make sure it's balanced. With Saturn dancing on your Mars for awhile and about to move into Virgo making productive aspects to your Uranus, you'll get a lot clearer about the specific "form" of your practice in achieving higher vision. And of course you're welcome.

Hi D. - Sure. Everything's simple - it's just may or may not be easy. And to repeat myself, if you want to sing the blues....


Hi Robert,

I was just reading your other article on self-undoing behaviors again. My father has a stellium of nearly all his planets except 2 in the twelth and first houses; the Sun and Moon are in the 12th. It took me a long time - when I finally discovered astrology - to make sense of all the instances of self-sabotage he seemed compelled to experience for most of his life; of course in a family situation, self-undoing is never just about oneself, though I suppose all the others can do is try and understand and detach.

Thank you for your insight.


Hi hitchhiker72 - Well, we all get a 12th house experience for various periods of our lives, some longer and some shorter. Your dad just happened to start this life with multilevel karmas, some of which yielded self-sabotage (who hasn't done that at least twice or thrice in their life?) and others yielded a completion of ancient karmas we cannot even imagine.

I have known quite a few men who were great, even famous, who self-destructed at some point through self-sabotage in some fairly creative ways. That's why I was pulled toward participating in and furthering the so-called "men's movement" in its seminal years. I've always quested to try to understand more of the mythology of men and women, and for a time I promoted many efforts for men to honor their deep grief and potential for redemption. Some handle the path better than others at different times, kinda like women too. But now we're into some pretty heavy jazz...


Thanks, Robert. This makes a lot of sense. I've recently become quite interested in the 12th house. Am going to try and read up a bit more.


Oh my i feel like i've found a fountain of wisdom here:)
i have my Venus and Saturn in the 12th..I don't have these Venus in the 12th troubles,not those presented by most astrologers,like being denied someone's affection,betrayal etc.I don't even see this happening:)..i feel confident,very self-contained,sometimes detached.I do crave solitude.
Some messages from people with this position made me very sad,i wish i could protect them from heartaches somehow,i know how intense their suffering can be.That's why it makes me very very happy that you affirm the true potential of this house!
My 12th house is in scorpio..what does this mean,on a profound level?Venus and Saturn are also in scorpio.
Also i have Venus conj ascendant--4° this supposed to locate my Venus on the "dark side" of the first house also?and its influence is felt there as well?
i have so much more questions,but i don't want to abuse.thank you:)


Hi szeretlek - Well, it could mean many things. I would think you have deep wisdom re: the need to develop detachment and dispassion, and are here to go deeper into concepts around rules and limitations in relationships, eliminating all those expectations that create sorrow through being unnecessarily bound. Much depends on what you have in Taurus, Libra, Capricorn, and Aquarius, as well as the sign on the Asc. Your positions can make for worldly recognition through being able to stir others to deeper feelings, such as an artist whose works move people.


Robert,the 12th house comment stream happened to be very productive in revealing the mysteries:) in one of the most difficult-and importanet!- spheres of human relationship-so called MWS(Man-Woman System)...
And the way/tune/mood you write about your sweetheart is very touching and teaching(teaching by touching souls).Maybe Real Love is when 1+1 is much more than 2,and 2*2 is much more than 4. If you continue this theme in a bigger than a stream comment format-it would great!For all ages:)


Hi Svetlana - Will try to oblige, though the entire business of the "gender wars" is a huge area fraught with misunderstanding. Thanks for your appreciation of my view of my wife and best friend. We are truly stronger together than separately, and very, very much in love with each other. It's a great timeless love affair. Not bad for a couple of middle-aged "gray hairs!" (And proves that no matter how old we are or what we've been through up to now, we can still find a friend we could love and who could love us, wholeheartedly!)


I have followed this thread with much interest! I have three planets in the 12th house, which is in Pisces. I have Sun in Leo, Uranus in Leo and Mercury in Leo all in the 12th house. Pluto is in Leo in my 1st house, right on the cusp of the 12th. I also have my moon in Aquarius, Leo rising and NN in Sag. Any insights??? I have been Googling around trying to gather as much info as I can on this 12th house complexity of mine. I have consulted with astrologers and gotten a range of responses, all of which ahve been very interesting!

Input anyone, did I give enough info?



Hi KathyDV - I also have Pluto in Leo in the first with Moon in Aquarius. You've been doing some amazing closure rituals these past two years, and preparing to experience yourself and your power in entirely new ways. You've certainly had to deal with the gap between the ideal and the reality. Having deepened your feelings and seen what you can and cannot live with, from now through the end of the year go with the Jupiter on your NN, since that is expanding your line of greatest development. With Moon ruling your 12th, the Saturn opposition helped you reverse old karmas by seeing them from multiple angles of interpretation, thanks to Jupiter.


Thank you, Robert. As always your response is dead-on and insightful. Thank you so very much!



I have a virgo sun in my 12th house (my ascendent being libra) i wonder what this implies and what challenges it'll throw up/has thrown up that i need to watch out for or go back and fix?


Hi marina - You have a lot of closure to achieve through practical service to attain a degree of enlightenment about perspective and proportion of self/non-self. And of course your work involves friends, groups, and forms of larger service which you may or may not do "behind the scenes." There are many more possibilities, but they are so numerous that we cannot do this in a comment stream.


These articles have been so incredibly beneficial to my current journey in life. I've been studying astrology for about 10 years now and have gained so much self-awareness in the process. I feel so blessed for coming across it because it truly guides one to look in the correct places for answers to ones conflicts; both internal and external. About 2 years ago I had a powerfully psychic, dream-like experience, a.k.a. hypnogia, that brought me face to face with my unconscious. Prior to that I never knew that such a part of me existed at all. Since then I've been working to find ways to intergrate that hidden part of my psyche into my life so I can turn a negative issue into an positive, but I haven't been successful. I was born with my moon in the 12th House and it wasn't until I read these articles that I finally understand the true meaning behind it all. Never have I read a 12th House description that doesn't follow medieval or classical views of the house that portend to its negative aspects only. Now I understand completely that a large part of myself has been seculded in my unconscious mind since I was in utero. The horrific experiences my mom faced during my pregnancy were flushed into my psyche and I have been dealing with it ever since. Her friends, boyfriend and family abandonded her for having a child at 17 and out of wedlock, therefore, I have a strong and seemingly irrational fear of the same thing which holds me back from connecting with others. Not to mention the fact that I do have a keen intuitive ability which I sense but can't tap into. I believe I may have repressed those feelings out of fear of not being understood by skeptical people. The biggest hardship has been the crippling emotions that can over take my rational mind and bring me to engage in self-destructive behaviors. Now I can see those emotions are signals from within that something in my life is no longer valid and must be ended. However, my abandonment issues have caused me to cling to things no matter how destructive I know they really are. Before reading these articles, I really had no idea how overlooked these issues were in me. I feel like I have finally acquired the key to the kingdom of my true potential. I have so many blessings and talents as my chart certainly indicates, but I've never been able to use them long enough since I always find a way to destroy whatever success I have obtained. If I intrepret this correctly, though, since my moon is in Gemini, I can't help but assume that writing might help me find an avenue to my 12th house potential. Would you agree with that assessment? This will certainly help me as I continue with a transiting Pluto opposite Ascendant that started 2 years ago. Still further, September mathmetically commences a transiting Saturn conjunct my IC, Sun and Saturn (all conjunct in my chart). I know all this will help me make the best of my journey.


Hi Chris - Glad these articles can help you as you thread the needle of this weird world. The unconscious, both personal and collective, is a powerful force, and when turned to the good, can create miracles. I'm sure you've integrated some things positively and have been more successful than you suspect. We all are, but often we don't see how successful we've been until we get some distance from that time period.

Moon in the 12th is extremely sensitive to endings, karmic factors, and hidden needs in situations. It does show you are more comfortable in seclusion than in crowds and have a naturally contemplative nature, but it also indicates in Gemini that you prefer close company than a sense of isolation. You have a very clever mind, and if you can learn how to relax and concentrate, you could find a brilliant idea and become quite well known for something that can provide for a commonplace need. You need a mental discipline to focus your intuition.

While Moon in the 12th can bring sorrow through feelings, it mainly applies to immature feelings and feelings that scatter you rather than help you focus. The dualisms of a 12th house Gemini energy can lead to irresoluteness in behavior, which is always bound to lead to unfortunate results. Any negative emotional states you get into should be a clue for you to depersonalize and see the issue from a "clinical" point of view and yes, end something. Clinging and clutching are natural for humans who haven't assigned the right position to their feelings relative to the Higher Love we Eternally ARE. No big problem, as long as we "un-clutch" and detach, opening to whatever larger view inevitably shows itself when we do.

Glad I could help you find the keys to your kingdom. Yes, writing is a very good thing for you to do, as you may be able to articulate some common human issues and help others also to find closure and a different view of what is and why. You're a natural mirror of others, and with Jupiter where it is, learn to get a central ordering to get a sense of what fits where in the larger scheme of your life. Find a way to integrate your sensitivity with your breadth of interests, and you'll find yourself understanding things that have always been a mystery to you.

Be willing to compete and/or cooperate with greater ease, avoid the reclusive life you feel you need, and you have the power to take on great responsibilities that can help your world.


Hi Robert
This 12th house conversation is fascinating - I always learn so much on my almost daily visits to your site! My Virgo cusp 12th has always fascinated me as in it I have Pluto sitting exactly on my south node. This is in conjunction to Jupiter and Uranus also exactly conjunct at 0 deg Libra also in 12th. (July 17, ´69, 11.20 am.) I am wondering what this means with regard to what I should be doing with my life and how past karma is affecting my outlook now. What with the Virgo/Pisces eclipses and trans Saturn conjuncting my moon, (+ that neptune opposition!), I feel I´m at a major crossroads, a bit confused; and really looking for how best to serve my world and therefore myself. Any ideas would be very dearly appreciated.
Ps. Went into rehab July 2006 - life-changing so much more than just a cleaning-up experience...


robert - belated thanks for this article...i'm the one who posed the question. for the past two years i've had saturn going through my 12th (using basic sun sign astrology, not time of birth); difficult challenges that don't necessarily respond to simple 'manpower'.

i've noticed that the lessons saturn is kicking up as he visits my 12th are very different from those jupiter brought a few years back. the 12th house is so much. i am still very much uncertain about how things will turn out - my degree program is tough. i'm hoping that saturn nearing my sun will return some more power to my hands, even if it means very hard work - w/o meaningful work progress i'm lost (virgo sun-NN-venus, 6th house mars).

anyway, i wanted to offer these quotes from the i-ching because they help remind me to be patient with 12th house activity:

'all beings have need of nourishment from above. but the gift of food comes in its own time, and for this one must wait...clouds in the heavens...the rain will come in its own time. we cannot make it come; we have to wait for it. waiting is not mere empty hoping. it has the inner certainty of reaching the goal. such certainty alone gives the light which leads to success.'

'oppression is the test of character - it leads to perplexity and thereby to success. through oppression one learns to lessen one's rancor'


It's amazing how much knowledge and wisdom is "lost" to one singluar house. Then again, the longer things are hidden, the more profound it is to discover them. I have been doing much research and soul-searching in order to gain as much information as I can regarding this new found portion of my life, and astrology as a whole. I actually have been struggling the past few years with trying to get more in touch with my unconscious mind and intergrate it into the totality of my life. I became aware of this part of myself in a dream that had a connection with someone I'm romatically involved with. My 12th House cusp resides on Taurus and it's ruler Venus is in Libra and conjunct Mars and Pluto in my Fifth House of romance. Am I correct in assuming that the ideal way for me to gain access to this house and all the potential there within is through a spiritually-inclined (Pluto), highly energetic (Mars) relationship (Venus)? As I've said, my Moon is in the 12 House, and my interaction with my love has actually brought me in touch with my emotional side; which I've suppressed for many years. So I feel our relationship has helped my out there as well. Certainly, without him I don't think I'd be in touch with my feelings or acknowledgeable of the unconscious mind. Furthermore, throughout the course of my life I have said and done things that others have all to often interpreted incorrectly which turns them against me. They never confront me with these issues directly for some reason, yet they work against me secretly to dissuade others from respecting me at all. It's sad because I'm one of the nicest, most helpful individuals who genuinely cares about all humans. If I tap into the 12th House energies, would this ultimately reduce these kind of clandestine socail sabotages in the future? Any information you can give will certainly help. I've been looking at friends and family members 12th House as well in hopes of helping them connect with their deeper psyche. I can't thank you enough for submitting these articles. I've always been afraid of the 12th House, because of all it's perceived negative connotations and afflictions. Now I feel like I found a new toy to play with and it's great. Thank Again and Take Care. (Aug 26, 1978 - 12:36 AM - Concord, MA)


Hi Kerry - Glad you get so much. I figured that since the 12th house is so important but not well understood, and the usual way of regarding it is soooooo negative, that I could open up some other views with this post. I mean, we all have a 12th house, and it cannot be all bad, or we'd never experience the good. So where do we experience the "good?" The 12th house, of course. The possible interpretations for your configuration is way more than we can get into here, since there are multiple ways it works its powerful effects. You're a unique form of archetype, and the more you can embrace your uniqueness and magnetic power the better. You catalyze change and purification in others, and have an x-ray vision that they feel is staring through them, whether you are or aren't in reality. You are deepening, and finding greater goals, ambitions, and potential ways of flowering in creative ways. You have a few things to release when Saturn goes into Virgo, and within 3 years will undergo a transfiguration of momentous proportions.

Hi dottie - Yes, Saturn is definitely different than Jupiter in the 12th! That said, you're coming to an entirely new way of using time and maturity and experience to achieve expression of your authentic self. Saturn on the Sun is said to bring the results of what we've been willing to work for/toward. It was true in my life about 10 years ago, and seems to be true in everyone else's life I've observed. New responsibilities, new maturity, and new sense of what we can and cannot do accompany Saturn on the Sun (and I assume you read my article on Saturn conjunct the planets). This Autumn and Winter should begin to restructure your relationships and move you into your line of greatest development. The I Ching quotes are absolutely spot on in describing positive Saturn energetics!

Hi Chris - The 12th house is the "dream repository" where the images of the personal unconscious blend with the images in the collective unconscious that are in tune with ours. You should study Taurus traits and learn to express only the positive ones while consciously renouncing the negative ones. This can be done through finding equipoise, fairness, and a point of view that is welcoming, strong, and purifying. Your Venus is by far the strongest planet in your Libra stellium. Use it as a governor of the impulsiveness and extremely energetic tendencies of Mars and Pluto. Yes these work out through relationships, but we must still steer our boat. It is through handling your relationships expressing forms of purified elegance and grace in the Libra house arena that you will master your karma. There's more, of course, such as the indirectness of others in not confronting you being a Libra quality, so you probably are being compared vs an archetype whether you know it or not. In any case, you work out your karma through finding what is fair and just within and between you and others.


hello, i"m irina.
if you would like to take a look on my map it will be great. I have sun and merc in my 12th house, uranus and neptun in 6.and my moon is in pisces conj MC. ooo, and stellium rulled by saturn in 5. I"m an astrolog ( beginner, true) but my map i just c"ant understand. and i"ve take a look on my solar return and this year my destiny will be " active", if i may say so(1st anual house it"s in 1st natal house , and so on).
it will be very helpful if you would do this for me...
i am born on 13.06.1982, at 6.15 am, country:romania , city: iasi.

thanks, irina.


Robert,thank you very much!Your words more than appreciated..I am just sorry we have to discuss these issues in a comment stream,as there isn't much space=(


irina,ce surpriza!imi poti da o adresa a ta?vreau sa intreb ceva:D Excuse me,everyone.


Hi Irina - Well, an extensive analysis is impossible in a comment stream. Still, you will do well to study and learn as much as possible beginning September, and stay open to wider perspectives. You should make major progress this summer, though there may be a slight "crisis of direction" at the end of August. You have just gone through major changes, probably about 5-7 months ago more or less, and will enjoy the fruits of your labor in the coming year. It will also be an end to whatever has hassled you in the past 12 months.

Jupiter is very much your friend in 2007-2008, so search for your greater purpose that you'll prepare for over the next year, which should be seen as a preparation phase for a much larger life coming around the Saturn return. For the next 5 months, learn how to keep the initiative in your hands, practice forms of dramatic self-expression, and BE your most hopeful self rather than get lost in past ghosts, especially in Autumn and Winter.

Hi szeretlek - Sure. There's just so much that cannot be said in a public forum, and of course, typing is less efficient than phone calls (or telepathy!) ;-) I try to keep up, but there are a lot of requests and I just can't devote that much time to typing, so I try to anticipate questions and put in relevant info in my articles that readers can take and discuss, interpret, and digest at their own pace in their own circumstances.

Hi wave - Of course! I love it that this "roadhouse" has so many people from so many places. Great that you can stop by.


thanks a lot, robert! really! I know that will be some changes...That"s why i am so scared...but that"s life, right?
ooo, and you are right about everything you said about my past... 7 months...and, yes, i am an actrice! :)
i hope that everything will turn out good! thanks again. irina.

iar pt wave,imi pare bine ca mai e un roman...oare, de fapt, cati om fi si nu! excuse us, everybody!

Wildhorse running

Hi all....
I believe i have 'demonstrated' the sabotaging effects of the 12th house...and am feeling the shift of the pendulum swinging the other way. Am grateful for the explainations of Venus in the 12th...and that others have had have I.....Virgo is the cusp of the 12th...but I have NNode conjuct Venus conjunct Asc in Libra. The commment about venus in the 12th and commpassion...or a dream showed me about "choosing spiritual vs sexual love"....opening of the heart.....which has been "closed/fear" emotionally.....and as it is conjunct my NNode, when that happens/which I can "feel happening" "Service" will present itself....I think I also understand that the 12th has tremendous power to bring forth "latent skills/abilities"....but for me, there needed to be some "suffering first"...and the timing involved, and the willingness to proceed through it, to discover what has been hidden. Thanks so much Robert for this space, and to all the others with info/expierences with the my Illumination is coming faster....


You Highness,

A couple days ago we discussed the full moon in Cappy that occurs on the 30th at 9 exact on my MC illuminating my cancer 4th house, bringing my past to public.

What if we did a solar chart with Cappy ruling the 6th house illuminating my 12th cancer house where venus and uranus live?


Hi Irina - Sure. Interesting to have a substream dialog in a different language, but of course, it's all good.

Hi WHR - Glad the illumination is coming faster. Just have compassion for yourself along the way, and remember to be as happy as possible as you're cruising through this weird reality.

Hi Chickie - Apply the same reasoning to whatever the lights touch re: illumination and form. Ex: Illumination of karma or ghosts offering practical forms of healing through Moon in Cap energy. Or illumination of old Venus Uranus biz affecting houses they rule to be given as forms in Cap. Ruler of Solar 12 is the focus for illumination of rulers of Solar 3rd and 10th, etc.


Here's something 12th house-ish. I met someone last night who produces infomercials. I gave him a couple commercials I wrote 13 years ago. So I went to my former chicago producer's website to tell him that he's been on my mind to find out he died on August 29 2005, the Katrina Anniversary. He was my favorite producer and I always did my best work with him and and had planned to go home to work a Katrina project with him.

Hope this isn't a precurser to the full moon cuz I've had enough of living with the dead.


Hi Chickie - 12th house is truly the "repository of ghosts of the past." I've always regarded it as our cosmic compost heap, where we could find almost anything from this life and other lives as well. Some things do take longer to "break down" than others.

Your specific experience could have a lot to do with Mercury RX in Water trine your Moon. Many times I also have found people dead I hoped to connect with. That's why we must act now on some things, and not "wait for the right time." The "right time" sometimes is "never" if we wait. And of course, if we live long enough, we'll outlive everyone we ever knew or worked with. Do not lament that fact, as it is a privilege denied to many.

One thing to consider, Your Sun-Pluto Majesty, from one who has Pluto rising: We walk with the dead anyway. Eventually we walk on, but are still surrounded with the experience of our past-present-future existence 24/7. As long as you're one of the "Rulers of the Underworld," take a deep breath and relax into being a noble loving Consciousness who walks between worlds. In that aspect of yourself you will find illumination, integrity, and the heart of courage's power.


Courage is EXACTLY what I need at the moment, Your Highness!

Thank you and know someday I will feed you a feast that you'll never forget!


Wow. I'm glad to have found this posting. There's so much here that I can relate to. I have a heavily emphasized 12th house -- sun, venus, mercury, neptune are all here in Sagittarus. Sag. is on the cusp of the 12th.. neptune is conjunt the asc. which is at 3deg Cap. Intuitively I feel that I'm an old soul, and that I'm working on closing many chapters, although I seem to need to be constantly reminded of this. Many times I want to just lay down and die as opposed to dealing with the load. I felt a very strong connection to much of what Chris described above -- abandonment/connection issues, sabotage by self and others, people talking behind my back, feeling at times like it's me against the world.. I've loved people who I now realize weren't worthy, suffered deception/illusion surrounding psychics, and dealt with feelings of being cut off from the world for much of my life.. (Chris if you read this, email me -- I would love to talk to you.) I feel like I live behind a glass wall, and alternate between staring at soceity, wishing I could join in, and running away into my own illusion. I believe I came into the world with very high ideals.. and it seems as though something is trying to teach me that holding these ideals is useless. Does this make any sense? - Jeff - - Dec 4, 1982 @ 9:26AM, Chatham, ON, Canada


Hi Jeff - 12th house emphasis can mean a behind-the-scenes angel, perhaps one who helps others achieve movement for all to achieve forms of personal closure. It is the Eternal Witness, in your case a freedom loving interactive light who will never have a "concrete" personality, but always one who is sensitive to the larger collective atmosphere and willing to take responsibility. You were hindered in your early life by "cosmic deficiencies," and so learned determination despite the sense of transpersonal vagueness that is Neptune. However, that also makes you an ever-changing mystery to yourself and others, and always "on the outside looking in," since you'll always feel vaster than what you're looking at.

Only the ego wants to "lay down and die," since nothing ever dies except forms of ego. Abandonment is a Sacred Wound where you'll find what heals your world, since you share that wound with many others. As for self-sabotage, that is corrected by examining potential consequences of any given action. People gossiping and being at odds with the world can also be easily remedied by not caring about the unimportant and focusing on what you have to offer your world whether it recognizes it or not. Play for all time and all space, since your audience will change throughout your life and across lives.

We all love "unworthy" people so that we can learn the difference between conditional and unconditional love, and where our heart is at. It's all part of human life, and it's better to have loved, if unwisely, than not at all, since those who avoid love out of fear will never know its delights. And we do develop starch in our spine as a result of difficulties, so despite difficulty being a drag, it can still show us our Higher Self. As for psychics, well, I probably have known about a dozen my entire life who were accurate; the rest were BS artists who take people's money and tell them what they want to hear, whether it leads to wreckage or not. Again, these also teach us discrimination, the real from the unreal, the greater from the less, the superior from the inferior. It's all grist for the mill of Soul. Hold your highest ideals, and find ways to develop them. That entails developing yourself to achieve those ideals while learning to let go of what is irrelevant or inappropriate to those ideals and having a positive intention.


thank you very much -- you've given me a lot to think about. i found "play for all time and space" very encouraging. i'm only 24 years old and i'm struggling to understand all facets of human existence. it's difficult. but again, thank you so much for your encouragement.


Hi Jeff - You're welcome. 24 is a year of change, where we leave some things behind while embracing a greater possibility. No doubt you'll understand more about human existence by 30, so relax, enjoy the show, and do what you must to live your higher Self freed from fear, attachments, aversions, illusions, and the tendency for the mind to go into unhelpful spaces.


Thanks again. I know I need to relax a bit, but I feel a strong sensed of being pushed into a new way of living. I was reading the forum about "the afterlife" where you mentioned that you've noticed how certain signs and houses may be emphasized on reincarnating after a suicide. Could a 12th house emphasis indicate a past-life suicide? The denial of certain energies in childhood could lead one to feel a sense of being incomplete -- similar to how someone who commits suicide likely feels. Wouldn't this be an effective way of re-experiencing the feelings that resulted in one committing suicide in the last life?


Hi Jeff - Stop trying to confine "suicide" to specific indicators. There are many types of suicide, so NO - a 12th house emphasis does NOT necessarily have anything to do with suicide. Suicides do not necessarily feel any more incomplete than those who don't take that onerous route. If they do feel incomplete, it's because they didn't do the needed inner work and usually blame the world for whatever. Having known more than a few who committed suicide, I have found them usually self-absorbed, self-pitying, egocentric beings who can't take the heat and so kill the body under the illusion that it will end their pain, which is incorrect, since their astral and mental bodies persist until the appointed karmic time when they would have checked out. This is of course different for those who have very advanced stages of unbearable diseases and choose to go rather than hold on to hopeless pain and suffering, though those also could learn from Ramana Maharshi's example. We can always transcend the body - the trick is to do it in the way most appropriate to our evolution.


Hi all,

I am a sixteen-year-old girl and my name is Sarah. My Sun is in Taurus (House 11), my Moon is in Cancer ( House 1 )conjunct my ASC and I have Venus Conjunct my ASC in the twelfth house- however I have been told that it is at the END of my twelfth house. What does this mean? Also, I have Gemini in the twelth with Mercury in the 11th. Therefore, I have the 11th house poisted in the twelfth but what would this mean? Also, the ruler of my fifth is also in the twelfth. Any insights on this? Thanks :)


Hi Jeff.

Robert has said what has to be said, I think suicide it's like adding lots of suffering in an infinite path of self-growth than, as humans we are, sometimes becomes weird or hard to endure, but ultimately entails a lesson.
By the way, the 24's is not like the 30's, when certain ideals have crystalized in a more matured-earthly way (I don't mean less powerful, but even more powerful).
Concentrate on your inner gifts even if the results aren't at hand right now or even if you don't know then yet, cut back on people you don't need and hurt you, without repentment to have loved, and remember each individual is an important part of Universe.
In few words: Self-esteem needed for thath 12th!. Give yourself your time to search or receive in unusual ways, but don't give up.



Your Highness,

I am in and out of tears about 20 times a day. I could be doing my power walk, going to the store, or on last night's dance floor and suddenly I bust into tears and don't know why. I do know about deep memory. However something's jogging it and I wish I knew exactly what it's all about.

How about the current node transit conjunct my 12th house Pisces Jupiter.......Si/no?



Hi Sarah - It means your Venus is nearer the first house than the 11th, and that it progressed into your Asc fairly quickly this life. Not sure what you're getting at with 11/12 stuff, but I can say the ruler of your 12th is in the 11th, which can mean many things, from friends showing you what has been completed to finding closure when you open to wider perspectives, goals and ambitions. R.5th in 12th can also have a thousand meanings, from karmic relationships with children to public recognition (whether you want it or not!) if you take up theater or sports.

Hi Henry - Yes, the Saturn return in the late 20s is what makes the 30s so very much different than the 20s. Sometimes the ideals haven't crystalized as one might like, but there's always the sense that there is a different life to be lived than whatever happened before, and it's ours to steer in the direction we choose, whether we feel up to it or not. Whatever ends in the 12th paves the way for whatever we must pick up in the first.

Hi Chickie - I also have Jupiter in Pisces, and that position is said to create tears on a moment's notice for reasons we may or may not ever discover. I've found that to be true. Jupiter in Pisces is connected to the weltschmertz, and "witnesses" things that may not be evident to our 5 senses. I'm sorry you're going through such deep stuff, but ultimately you'll come through it cleansed. Ask for reasons to present themselves, and I'm sure you'll sense something.

Lucinda B.

Robert - Your ability to answer so many questions & provide so much help and guidance is truly amazing. Thank you.

I am trying to get a better grasp on the meaning of the 12th house in my own chart. Here's the piece I'm most curious about: I have a t-square between Pluto, Saturn & Venus that points its void into the 12th house. No planets in the 12th. Sagittarius on the cusp.

Could you offer some clues to help guide my further research? I assume Jupiter (in Pisces, 2nd house) plays an important role, but I don't quite understand the relationship. Would the planets & their signs in the t-square also impact the role of the 12th?

Thanks so much!


Hi Lucinda - You gave me no relevant signs for the square, so I am at a loss to offer much. The void of a T-square shows the problem and the solution. Sag is your sign of "self undoing," but also motives and harvests. Yes, Jupiter plays a part, but only as ruler of the zone, not the direct actor in the drama except for its trine influence on your Saturn. This assumes you were born in May 1974, in which case Mars also plays a part. Your void in Cap is the key to your understanding.

Lucinda B.

Very sorry about leaving that information out in my question above, Robert. Yes I was born May 7, 1974 near Washington, DC, 12:40am. This t-square of mine is between Venus in Aries, Saturn in Cancer & Pluto in Libra. (It keeps me on my toes.)

Grateful thanks for any further thoughts you might have. - Lucinda


Hi Lucinda - I would think you could remove all negative expectations about "making love work," and learn to avoid or dump those extreme or bizarre relationships that deflect you, get you lost in loose ends, or prevent you from getting the results you want from life. Do NOT allow yourself to be put into mental slavery due to other people's manipulations and rationalizations about rules and "shoulds." Get yourself oriented along lines that appeal to you. Mars RX is helping you understand your Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn, and since it trines your Uranus all Jan-Feb, I'm sure you'll integrate a bigger picture of what you need to begin in March.


hi robert
i have met a man who has his sun/merc in leo in the 12th house. 22.8.65 06:30 london uk. im new to 12th house activities but what does this mean if we were to have a relationship? does it mean tht he would want tons of time alone?


Hi Genevieve - Relational astrology and cross chart harmonics cannot be explained or addressed by any one factor. Often those with a strong 12th house emphasis like time alone or contemplation, but there are many other ways it can manifest, such as public recognition for institutional work and other such manifestations. He also has very powerful Virgo energies now being crystalized by Saturn, after clearing a lot of karmas and maturing profoundly during 2006-2007. Expect him to be seriously focused the next couple of years, and probably working his brains out. Still, he needs a creative or playful outlet despite the rigor he has embraced.


Hi Robert

Firstly, thank you for imparting your wisdom on this page. I have been impressed by your interpretive powers. I too interpret charts and find it very illuminating re: the myriad of human emotions.

In the 12th house I have the following placements:


I also have a Sun/Pisces in the 5th house. The hidden protection associated with both Jupiter and Pluto I greatly feel. For me it manifests as a ‘Council of Elders’ looking over me. This might sound a bit weird to some readers, but 12th house protection often acts on an invisible level. Furthermore, the responsibility and duty I receive from Saturn can seem 'heavy' at times and I empathise with many of the stories shared by fellow readers.

Robert, I'm curious to know more about the karmic transformation that surfaces from the unconscious of my above 12th placements? Elements of Fear and doubt are at the heart of my journey thus far, and specifically healing them with love and compassion. I find that when I do this successfully my energy increases and I am able to express creatively (through my fifth house and the medium of writing) the lessons that I have acquired.

Also, the book you refer to: The Magic of Space by a Tibetan monk. Do you have the name of the monk? I'm aware that it is out of print but I am determined to 'attract' a copy to me through my networks.



Shinto I did a quick search, Mr. Robert is this the book? If not, I do hope you "attract" a copy

The Magic of Space printed in 1962 - Triton, Hay John
Inscribed Best Wishes 1974 John Hay. John Hay was instrumental in bringing the book to publication. Tight and unmarked in jacket, blurb on rear flap of jacket has one line inked out. Jacket shows light shelf wear $300.00 Collectible


Thanks for this information 81... the search begins :-)


hi shinto
have jupe in 12th and sun in 5th too!
tho in different signs

Strangely I too live a life defined by fear and selfdoubt
My life's struggle is to feel challenged and keep defending myself

And keep hoping my writing transmutes my life one day creatively!

But my ruler of the first is in the 12th house.

neptune sometimes ruler of pisces is in my 8th.
I have heard that jupiter in the 12th protects.
never felt protected.


Hi Shinto - Yes, 12th house planets often are associated with hidden friends as well as enemies. Saturn in the 12th is a heavy karma, but also offers the chance to become a very evolved responsible Being once Dharma is embraced wholeheartedly. Fear and doubt are Saturn lessons. Kill out fear at the root since it's a useless but dangerous disease. As for doubt, it is one of the 10 fetters that must be eliminated if any true spiritual progress is to be made beyond personality integration. Doubt (and its polarity, belief) are illusions. We need knowledge, not belief. Then we don't have to doubt, since we'll simply know, or know we need to learn. Obviously love and compassion are good things to cultivate, but love without knowledge can be fairly ineffective (while knowledge without love is barren.) 5th house Sun shows integration, light, and power in creativity. The Magic of Space is said to have been written by a "Tibetan Dakini," though actually it was probably written by a Master of the Wisdom very well known in Theosophical circles given the content of certain passages.

Hi 81 - Yes, that's the book. It is unfortunately very expensive. John Hay was in fact the vehicle who volunteered to take dictation from the Master. I usually am wary of "channeled" material since 99% of it is bogus and a lukewarm reiteration of material better explored through other primary sources. In this case, though, we all owe a huge debt to the august Mr. Hay.

Hi anu - Glad you also are learning to kill out fear at its root, and learning that all "self doubt" is merely the mind's restless questioning of the superficial, impermanent ego being perceived. The writing won't transmute you, but as you transmute your writing will express the results of the process. The ruler of the 1st in the 12th challenges you to take the long view and not bail before the final tally is in.

Jupiter in the 12th is definitely a protective agency. I have it in my Solar 12th, and find that I ALWAYS get my payoff at the end of cycles, never before. When younger and definitely full of reckless attitudes, when I listened to my inner voice I always dodged the bullet in advance of it appearing. When I didn't, often the protection was still there, but I had to go through ordeals where I was spared some fairly horrific experiences through guardian angels in human form who would appear at the last moment to divert the external destructive forces. There were truly times I barely "got out of Dodge" before some very nasty people could have hurt me very badly. Through those experiences I learned to be more thoughtful in what I exposed myself to, and never ignore the inner voice.


Thanks Robert for your comments, I will take on board the essence of your words.

Hi Anu, following on from what Robert mentioned about 12th house protection, the sense I get is that my protection is more of a serendipitous kind. Often I have noticed that just in the last moment when things can go terribly wrong, a stroke of good fortune arrives. Often I feel as though it arrived to remind me to have more faith in the process of life and the lessons that need to be learned. Listening to one’s intuition (as Robert mentioned) can help 'see' the signs and take action as well.

Also, I have noticed that really negative people that I have come across do not stay in my life for long. They are normally drawn away from me. This I feel is the result of varying energy levels. For example, when you meet someone, if your energy is more positive and you wish to maintain that level, the other person will have to rise up to your level to feel comfortable around you. Or else they may go away and socialise with others who take on board their negativity more easily. This is one way how 'protection' can work, in that it's not just a tangible armour kind of protection, but operates on more invisible levels.



yes,robert, i wont bail out
But yes I have a strong tendency to run before time.

I am too protective and scared to take risks or even be myself with people . So no need for protection for me ever! But yes, I dont drive because of my fear and no protection has been on offer as I have gone through with accident after accident.That is such a huge task for me now to stop being so protective of self and to start driving again.I wonder if it is worth it but then the constant dependence is equally debilitating.


Hi anu - Conquering your fear in all its forms will be the most rewarding work you ever do this lifetime. It will yield results you can't imagine now, but will definitely "prove its worth."


Hi, Robert.

Just a very concrete question.

My SR (Solar Revolution) for this year includes my natally-based 9th house planets (Sun, Saturn, Mercury and Venus) in SR 12th house.

With Leo -ruled by the Sun- Ascendant of this SR -oooops!, I don't grasp the meaning of a Leo ruler in 12th!-.

I' ve just started a new life abroad.

So...when we talk about SR and this placements, is it destined to be a total failure or it can be reversed in the fact of giving an unselfish service?. Or...I don't know.

It's not the mark of a failure -as it would be in some astrological considerations or "theories"?-.


For more data, which I hate to ask for:
29º 51' Cancer in 1976 is my natal Sun position.


Hi Henry - Illumination of motives, integration through closure rituals and seeing the wholes of experience, and finding in yourself your natal Leo qualities, to name a few. Also illuminating others' work habits, health issues, and so forth. Your natal Leo planets will be a major focus this year. You may need more time in seclusion or meditation, but that's good too.

Corina Dickinson

Hi, Robert. Thank you so much for this post, very precise and really comforting. I´m Corina from Argentina and I am 22 years old.

I have my Sun in the 12th house and I am Pisces. Jupiter in my chart is also in the 12th house and I actually agree with you, I have a sense of being a whole just by being, but sometimes I see myself as if I had a problem.... really big problems. My question is: If not only I have my Sun in the 12th house, but also my Sun is in Pisces, the actual sign that represents the 12th house.... isn´t that kinda difficult? I mean.. complicated... My ascendant is in Aries... so it is very difficult for me to not feel threatened by the aries energy... since I am extremely permeable to feelings and emotions. I feel as if I could feel what people are feeling and even thinking. So this excess of sensibility turns to be paralizing. Sometimes I get scared because I sense that all those frightening energies around me, actually are part of me and thus, represent me.

I have had several paranormal moments, like precognitions. Some times, being really down and depressed, I have really tried to evoke a superior force or energy, and I have dreamed with angels. Once, I really talked to an angel, well he talked to me... but it was a higher language, he used words but they were embeded with a high and bright energy. In my dream I went back to my past and I relived sad and difficult situations, and he told me that there existed a higher purpuse, and that for its achievement to take place, we had to live certain things, that where in constant correspondance to that superior "order". He kept talking about this "order". I don´t know if I am explaining myself, spanish is my mother language.

What do you think? Any suggestion? Really, any comment would be lovely and appreciated. I was born the 6/03/1987 at 9.00 am, in Buenos Aires, Argentina. (just in case you want to have a better insight)

Thanks again,



Hi Corina - All the planetary sign positions can show as "good" or "bad," depending on how we use the energies. You could illuminate motives through understanding subconscious or collective consciousness materials. You could be the light in institutions. You find illumination and illuminate others through compassionate closure rituals, and by invoking universals in the human condition at the end of processes.

I agree you are very receptive to collective conditions, but that just shows you have a "domain" in that arena. Your light may be in Pisces, but your self-image to cultivate is your Aries. You may be over-identifying with collective ghosts and karmas when you need to be exploring how to take and keep the initiative, and go your own pioneering way. Do not give vague energies leading to uncertainty, fear, or sorrow any power to take over your feelings. With natal Mercury RX in Pisces, much of what you think and feel has very little to do with you personally. Make sure to put much space between you and difficult people who are undermining or extreme, and try to find a mental discipline to help your Moon not get so scattered.

22 is when we get a functional discipline through shifts in values, resources, and the types and levels of relationships in our lives. Your dream tells it truly - in order to achieve our "higher purpose," meaning the cultivation and demonstration of our Higher Self, we must go through certain experiences so that we consciously raise our energies and refine them to become masters of our wisdom. I believe you can find a new, higher, broader truth and understanding over the next few weeks that can lead you to a very clear knowing of what to do and how to do it by early June.




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