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« Life Changes and Comments | Main | What Sign Rules Your State? »

Comments

Lauri

Hi Robert,
Thanks so much for this. After the much disputed election in 2000, where George W. Bush "won". I really was convinced that the US was a Cancer because so much in the US Cancer natal chart seem to intersect many "destiny" points in Bush's chart, but now that you brought up the US being a Pisces which I find fascinating, and I have never discussed with my friends who study and discuss astrology about, it really makes even more sense, than Cancer. I do not agree with the Virgo, standpoint.

The Articles of Confederation were the first attempt to federalize the states into a nation, so that to me is a birth. The Constitution was a growth from that birth, say when America began to walk on its own after falling several times. So, date wise the Pisces argument makes sense.

Also, one of the foremost reasons in my mind for the Pisces agrument is the emphasis in many poltical realm of the US being a "Christian" nation. The Pisces symbol is believed to be connected with the Christ fish symbol. Secondly, our entertainment industry, the development of the film industry. Pisces are extremely creative, deal in the world of illusion, and film and photography are two areas that most Pisces express their creativity. Thirdly, our seemingly national obsession with escapism and using/abusing drugs, alcohol, food, television, what have you, to avoid reality. Fourth, our newspeople are wonderful at bending the truth to influence. Fifth, our generous nature as a people, and need to be the "savior" to others, or at least appear that way. Gosh, I hope this doesn't sound that negative. Creativity, intuitiveness, compassion, forgiveness are also part of Pisces too, which I believe America or at least American ideals also possess. I could go on and on, but won't. Just some thoughts from a Pisces. Happy fourth to all, wishing everyone much internal, true freedom on this day!!!

Robert

Hi Lauri - Last check in for a few. Everything you said is very well thought out, and I'm in agreement that America sure seems more Piscean than Cancerian.

Mary

Hello Robert,
I am very impressed with the article on the nation and your comments about Bush. I am a Cancer smack dab in the middle,July 11, I have a Piscean son, and no matter how I approach him, it seems to be "my fault" that he has so many problems. I am not defending Bush because I do not know how much is his fault and how much is the fault of the nation. But, It still resounds with me that no matter what Bush does, the nation seems to find it to be the wrong thing.

Lauri

Hi Mary,

I do agree with you about the nation blaming Bush for everything and over looking a few positives things he has done (which there have been a few, namely the support of AIDS medicine in Africa to an extend even former President Clinton did not address, even though he'll say now he did, but the data does not support this, sorry this isn't suppose to be a political post) and that personal responsiblity seems very lacking. The UK seems to be going through something similar with Mr. Blair. I'm not so sure that this is entirely a Pisean trait, however, several Pisces I have known when things get rough blame themselves and when functioning in the negative will wallow in self-pity, not the blame of others, then move on to espacism through alcohol, drugs, shopping, etc. In the positive, I have seen Piscean folk overcome great obstacles with strong faith and committment to spirituality. Maybe a lesson for our nation in that. Huuuuummmmmmmm??

Robert

Hi all - Back for a moment. Washington was a Pisces, as was Einstein. Also some incredible self-betrayers and visionaries, as each sign has its problems. But Bush deliberately chose his behavior, so it's willful, destructive, productive of suffering and therefore adharmic, unless you're using Hitler and Stalin as a standard for war criminality Dharma. We have been told that "War is legalized murder." Just had to use that phrase, given tomorrow's post. See you in a few dozen hours.

Lauri

Yes, Robert, thank you for bringing it all back. One sign is no better than the other, "it is all in the way that (we) use it". And yes war is just sanctioned murder to support some hard-power external fear-based ego, always. I thought that it was interesting that Gandhi was on television all last weekend while the events were happening in the UK. It was a great juxaposition to the news. Hope things are going well for you.

Patricia

Hi,

Whether the nation is Pisces or Cancerian, I have my bases covered with a Cancer Sun and Pisces Moon. I think both water signs are fabulous when people with those traits do get past the "victim" and "blame the victim" stages.

Pardon the pun, but water signs are a well of compassion and love when they go deep within themselves and do the work. I am still doing the work and finding all sorts of hidden depth and treasures under the vast sea.

peace,

Patricia

Lauri

Right on Patricia!!!!

Chris

I have all too often wondered about the astrological configuration that designates our utopian experiment and to which degree it was intended to be such. I look at the founding of our nation as one of the first true examples of the Aquarian Age pronouncing its hallmark across humanity. For the first time in known history, a revolutionary government was actually initiated. It was not designed around a patriarchal or despotic perception. Such a concept at that time was unheard of and all the original colonies had trouble trying to establish their own constitution without it ending up as a monarchy or dictatorship in disguise. Massachusetts, whose eventual acceptance of its own constitution was the last to be ratified of the thirteen, became the inspiration behind the federal constitution. Granted, our founders applied the ancient Greco-Roman ideals of democracy to their new world government, but their final design was far more relevant than anything the Greeks and Romans did when they practiced 'democracy'. What's amazing is that our founders also took into consideration that people and societies change and advance from their conservative roots. Look at the Renaissance, Protestantism, Copernicus and his discoveries and so on; all these events portend necessary changes in society as it ever-increasingly evolves. Our founders saw these reasons and applied them to their version of the constitution and government; one in which could adapt and evolve congruent to the rest of society’s eventual changes. All these ideas have led me to assume that our nation is a Cancer at heart. Although Cancer is sometimes anxious of the unknown, especially by anything outside its security zone, it is a sign ruled by the constantly moving Moon. Hence, this portrays our nation's state of perpetual motion, leading to endlessly establishing change and reinventing ourselves, even when doing so is not necessary. "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free ... " This inscription explains it all as Cancer is a nurturer, a giver, and an entity that seeks to eradicate suffering and loss to all those bound to such fates. America's strong connection with food is another obvious Cancerian trait it expresses as it is (was) considered the breadbasket of the Western Hemisphere as well as the general acquiescence of the multitude of cuisines that underline our cultural heritage. All these acknowledgements have always led me to believe that the US is a Cancer at her core. Supposedly, the Freemasons were practitioners of Astrology and they supposedly had all but one signature placed on the Constitution on July 2, 1776. Mr. Jefferson and Mr. Franklin, among others, waited until an exact time by hour and minute on the 4th to cast the final signature and seal the hopeful destiny of the new nation with the energies by which the universe was emoting at that time. Sadly, many changes have taken place since then and their efforts may have been wiped out before too long.

As stated previously in above comments, in 1776, we were not a true and complete nation. We were an amalgam of several politically-independent colonies, half of which were Loyalists to England and who refused to follow in the footsteps of their northern brethren. This disconnection heralded the future collapse of our government as the abolitionist movement became powerful enough to radically dissolve the feeble adhesion of the nearly centennial government. The Civil War marked an end to the old ways of conducting ourselves as a politically bisected nation and the start of a true unity that was intended to take place with the ratification of the Constitution. This is where I conceptually start to diverge from thinking that we are a Cancerian body. After all, wouldn't the demise of our nation during the 1860's illustrate the death of the founder’s dreams? Therefore, wouldn't the reunification of our nation subsequent to the Civil War mark the moment our nation was born again, finally united (politically at least by way of total Federalism) as it was intended in our Constitution? Would this be the real birthday of the United States? If so, what signified it? Might it have been with the adherence of the 13th Amendment (September 1865) or the acknowledged end of the Reconstruction with the Compromise of 1877 (February 1877)?

To comment on previous topics mentioned, I find it VERY hard to believe our nation withholds a Virgo sun. As much as I would love that to be so, it just doesn't play out in the way we handle all of our policies, developments and cultural expressions. Granted, Virgo is a food sign more geared toward nutritional aptitude as opposed to Cancer's more nurturing, comfort food expression, but this is the only distinction I can find that might suggest the Virginal presense. Pisces might make sense as we are a nation of movie and television watchers, more interested in the trials and tribulations of highly glamorized, if not deified, celebrities. Moreover, we are also a nation of quick fix remedies taken in the form of pills, elixers or institutionalization. Entire entertainment venues were created around these cure-all's which were nothing more than intoxicants used to lead gullible consumers down a primrose path in thinking that the have been saved.

I believe, nonetheless, that we have a Sagittarius Ascendant as we are exquisite explorers of truth and knowledge and we love to chase after new adventures in the hopes of igniting all of humanity to a new realm of experience. This doesn't make sense regarding our propensity toward isolationism during the Great Wars; however, we like to believe that we saw a threat against the idealized ways we had fought many times to achieve and stormed in at the last moment to conquer the evil doers who threatened them. In the end, by our selfless actions, we also spread peace, harmony and prosperity to all our kin. Not unlike the heroic, lone sheriff in an old western town who battles against all odds to subdue the seemingly infinite amount of gangsters who control and terrorize the locale.

Our inventiveness and perpetual move toward invoking innovative technologies and practices before the rest of the world has had the time to do so on their own leads me to ponder the idea of our nation as an Aquarius after all. The unfathomable jolt of progress in civil rights for all its citizens, women, non-whites, physically disabled, non-Christian believers, GLBT community (eventually) and so on all lend me to the realization that we wield so much Aquarian energy and that he must be the true core expression of our nation. Even the League of Nations and its reconfigured United Nations, as well as the Peace Corp, our acceptance of constant immigration and all foreigners to our land with the intention of mixing things up in order to take advantage of all the wonderful skills and abilities found in the very best of the best that each and every culture on earth has to offer our utopia (theoretically speaking) is an ideal almost entirely attributed to Aquarius (and oh yes, Sagittarius). Furthermore, Uranus and Neptune are in mutual reception and have been since the early stages of the Bush presidency. This would most certainly engage the perception that our nation is a Pisces, as the two juxtaposed energies meld in unison. This would also bring about a misperceived awareness and acceptance of dogmatic principles and their extensive presence within our mass media as well as, regrettably, our government. Since these two behemoths have been fusing together, the concept of a need for strengthening, or contrarily, the dissolution of the division between Church and State has been reintroduced into mass consciousness. What's really alarming is that religion has actually been ratified by way of the Faith-Based Initiatives and the Office of Faith Services within the Executive Branch. No other time in our history would something like this ever take place directly in front of the populous as well as Congress without their righteous intervention, or at least with endless complaints against such unfair and blatantly biased motives. Then again, no other time in our history would the Iraq Fiasco and all its related 'coincidences' have ever been able to be single-mindedly debated, let alone be carried out without simple reasoning on our 'leader's' part or by the citizenry being so easily duped into blindly relinquishing their cognizance up to the sinisterly clandestine and disturbingly evasive "practitioners of the people's will", aka the Bush/Cheney/Rove Triumvirate.

If this is so, and our solar energy is actually filtered through Aquarius, then great and wonderful changes will take place after the mutual reception has subsided. Being away from our naturally observed Aquarian engagements and with the vacancy left by Neptune's illusive presence, our nation will, most likely, reignite fervor towards returning to our abandoned Promethean ways. Therefore, we can finally go back to being humanity’s reflection of our evolution into the Age of Aquarius and hopefully be the role model the rest of our species needs as the era takes root and intensifies.

Sorry this is so long, it's an article in itself, but I have looked at this topic over and over again and am ecstatic to be able to share some ideas with other like-minded individuals.

Robert

Hi Chris - I only have time for a brief comment, so welcome to the site. While your comment was a bit longer than most, you mentioned many good things that every American should ponder regarding our national identity. Without too much elaboration on what's already been debated by too many for too long without any clear resolution, I believe our nation is very Pisces, since we're a very weird entity prone to dreams and nightmares. The belief system in our nation is very Piscean, we have made a big deal over "In God We Trust" on our coinage (or the pending lack thereof) and given churches big and very unfair tax breaks, thus proliferating a curious form of state subsidized prejudice. Hollyweird, fast cars, and a certain American cool have been generated by the dream machine, and our weird imaging of American pop culture has now corrupted the desires and tastes of the entire world. And now I must get back to unpacking.

Chris

Thanks Robert,
I can see your point. Picses is an amalgam of all the signs and we are certainly a nation representing an amalgam of humanity itself. The Compromise of 1877, when our nation was finally brought back together, was finally signed into law on February 23rd, 1877. If one were to use this as the revised birthdate of our nation, we would see the Sun in Picses.

imi24lee

Hi all!I need your help, please
I am a foreign student, I am intrested in the American great civilization. during my studies I've met many question, and I was not able to answer them all. One of the questions I was unable to answer is this question taken from an examination we had:

In what ways have the circumstances of the nation's birth left their mark on the united states, today?

I've tried to answer, but I was a little bit confused about what to start with, what to mention, and what to avoid _knowing that the American history is so presious and rish_ in an attempt to write a good reasonable essay and have a good mark....
I want you to help me if you don't mind by suggesting me a typical answer, that I really need it. I will appreciate your help

Robert

Hi Chris - I believe the Compromise of 1877 merely settled the disputed election of 1876 while ending Reconstruction. It decided a presidency while stipulating that Federal troops would be removed from three southern states. However, the Constitution is the supreme law of the land, and our pre-Constitutional agreement (Articles of Confederation) was the inception of a process that ultimately led to a concrete national identity in terms of rules of governance, so any consideration of our national identity must figure that document into the mix. Still, it's refreshing to find someone who actually knows about things like the Compromise!

Hi imi24lee - In modern America, the Constitution and Bill of Rights define everything distinctive (and divisive!) in our present national identity crisis, since these have been the ultimate law of the land from the beginning. The Founders created documents that were revolutionary in their concepts at the time, and many aspects of our national debate still center around how to interpret their meaning. They definitely had a distrust of royal prerogatives, thus dividing the power in ways unknown in other nations. These documents have led Americans to believe in a supposed right to have unlimited guns, unlimited tax breaks for religion, and at one point served to ban slavery. They define the rights and duties all Americans live under. Our founders created these documents to attempt a better way of in self-governance, and that's why our elections are held the way they are, with all the chaos and corruption and legal challenges and all the other aspects of a dynamic process. However, they also took what they thought best from law already established, such as the old English law concept of the right to challenge unlawful detention (Habeas Corpus) because the drafters knew this is the foundation safeguarding individual liberty. The problem of course was that originally in our Constitution blacks constituted only 3/5 of a person for census/voting purposes, and that led to national problems down the road which still impact our society. Of course, our modern immigration debate is shaped by some of the same issues that drove the original European settlers to come to North America in the first place. The Europeans were definitely "illegal aliens" when they came, but now, after having so much over so many decades, we've now become short sighted and somewhat narrow minded regarding others who come to escape the oppressions of their native lands. There are many more ways the early circumstances have left their mark. To mention only two, there are the movements to compensate certain groups for perceived and actual oppressions by our government and people these past 2+ centuries, and the belief that we could do what we want with the world that has yielded the destruction of animal, plant, and oceanic populations. There is much of that sort of entitlement thinking that is a factor in our present national discord. Good luck on your essay.

imi24lee

Hello Robert! thank you so much
I think now everything is clear. thank you
I wonder if you could help me another time, because I have many things in your history and present time, that I need to know about...

Robert

Hi imi24lee - Sure. I'll add my two cents, for whatever it's worth. I know something about history, globally and locally.

imi24lee

hi Robert!
and thank you so much, Today I have another question for you, if you don't mind. and I wish that you could guide me.
My question is:
Is it true that, the Amerians had taken many ideas in their constitution from the Indian traditions and habits??
I will be waiting for your answer...

Robert

Hi imi24lee - Yes, many ideas came from such models as the Confederation of the Iriquois, but of course, trying to amalgam the European assumptions with the Native Americans' ideal of custodianship of the Earth proved impossible to achieve. So greed won out, through the vehicles of violence, duplicity, and betrayal. That said, there are many tribes, and most were not very enlightened. We exterminated or subjugated the tribes and then created the myth of "the noble savage." Also, many ideas of our founders came from the philosophical movement known as "the enlightenment," which of course built on previous ideas as well as rejecting others. The Constitution is a very interesting synthesis of many of the best ideals able to find consensus at the time.

imi24lee

hi Robert!
How are you?
...The American Dream...this notion..I want you tell me about it
I have found that it has a relation with the American Familly. Could you please tell me how?

Robert

Hi imi24lee - The "American Dream" has meant many things through the centuries. It has always been based on the perceived "rights" of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." At one point, it was the right to live one's life free of government oppression. At another point, it was the ability to have "40 acres and a mule."

In much of the 18th and 19th centuries it was tied to the notion of "Manifest Destiny," or the perception that this continent was ours for the taking, and that by moving past the known boundaries we could find freedom in the wilderness that we would of course "tame" by destroying everything natural that pre-existed there. In the past 200 years, it has been believed by many immigrant populations to mean the ability to come to America, remake yourself, make a lot of money, and live the good life.

More recently, I've seen it asserted as "the American lifestyle," i.e., everything "more, better, different" in a hyper-distractible reality. It's American (now global) pseudo-culture: faster bigger cars, more bigger hamburgers, amusement theme parks, 24 hour music, big media, never-ending perfect bodies, big entertainment, instant gratification, endless television, ever-faster computers and software, cell phones, unlimited "right" to pollute the environment, and everything else grand and unsustainable that the advertisers want to sell us.

About the only way I know it correlates to the American family is the desire that one's children will do better than oneself, and live a better life than we have. Of course, not all adults share this noble intention, as some do in fact block their children's best interests, hopes and dreams in pure parasitic selfishness and/or violent resentment.

In the 1950s "Leave it to Beaver" model, the American dream was 2.3 children, a new American-made car and a big house in the suburbs where Mom wore pearls and high heels as she vacuumed the house and the dishwashers and sprinkler systems never broke, or when they did the repairmen always did quick, clean, inexpensive and perfect work. Of course those models didn't take into account that many beat their wives, children, and pets, some lived drunk and surly lives, and people of color were at risk in large areas of America, where pursuing the American Dream or asserting your Constitutional rights could get you shot or lynched from a tree. Or even whistling at a white woman, for that matter.

imi24lee

Hi Robert!
this is me again...what I want to ask about today is the topic pf *the emergence of modern America 1890-1930*, I am confused a little bit about the most important events that marked this period and I want you, please, to sum up this period of me and give me kind of a guide to follow in my study..I have faced many subjects in this tipic like Imperialism; progressivism; industrial revolution...etc I want you to classify the events for me. I am so sorry in case I am bothering you but you are the only opened door for me to ask, and have a direct answer...thank you
I will be waiting your answer

Robert

Hi imi24lee - Please email me at the address given in the left hand links called "email me." We need to take this up outside this forum, since what you ask is not relevant to this site except tangentially. I will answer you via email, not here.

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