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Comments

dottie

since saturn moved into my sign, i'm starting to see the steps and why they're there. it's like i was trying in the 'wrong' way before now. but now i'm afraid that i won't get there fast enough. i've learned so much but will there be time to use it? more than ever i want to finish what i started (a long degree program). i've gained a real helper in someone who's more experienced than i am. but sometimes it seems like i still may not get there quick enough even with my best efforts. i'm working on research in my field and it's hard establish oneself b/c it's a race with everyone, not just your peers. hard to figure out people's intentions and how to get what you want. on one hand i feel things are different now...like progress is finally possible, the elements are getting into place. i hope i can make something out of all this now. any advice robert for a virgo 31/8/79?

Henry

Hi Robert.

People like me, born with a Natal Sun-Saturn conjunction(in my case plus other inner planets), are challenged to perfect heavily themselves in some area, are restricted first and intimatelly in need to reach some degree of "expertise"?. Don't want to talk about non-productive and unappropiate "punishment" issues, I think it's non-sense.

Is there, amidst the infinite world of speculation, a karmic/dharmic insight for this non casual very particular Natal position Saturn conjunction your Light?.

Following the thread, in my case the conjunction is in the very cuspid of Leo, being Sun in last Cancer degree and Saturn in very early Leo. Changed signs suggests something in the lessons of this conjunction?.

Thanks teacher.

Lori Flory

Hi Robert,

With Saturn in Sagitarius natally in my 1st house of being self, it's (Saturn) been a lifelong series of lessons. It also makes sense of why as a kid growing up with horses in a small town, I often felt more at home with the horses than I did with other kids. Sag is also related to horses. My spiritual path (speaking of personology) has always been the introspective one first.

Having been a spiritual medium since I was 3, these lessons of self (Saturn in the first house) seemed to serve along the path of helping others in later years, in the 20's and forward. I learned to listen within from a young age.

In high school when other kids were doing drugs, drinking, smoking etc ... I was ... you guessed it - usually found instead solo with the horses riding back in the hills. I've always been a deep inner thinker.

It seemed that they (the horses) were a part of my spiritual path from the inside out. My Dad in 1929 was born into a family in which his Dad competed with show jumpers and he thought his kids should have horses also. It was a blessing.

Saturn may be in my sun sign of Virgo now, but it's been a teacher all my life.

Blessings,
Lori

Lori Flory

Hi Robert,

Speaking of Saturn ... Saturn, in my Solar Return is in my 10th house now conjunct Midheaven, exact as of 9/25/07, Moving Forwards at Degree 0 in a 32 Degree House.

What does this mean? I am told this transit happens every 14 years so this would probably be the 3rd or so time in this life since I just turned 50 on 9/21.

Thanks Robert,

Lori

Jessi

Hi Robert, thank you the article. It's synchronicity for me, as for the past couple of weeks I've been feeling petulant, low and questioning everything...so I rode that, and this morning thankfully a change has started. Aside from a Pluto opposition Mars and Neptune opposition Saturn on-going, I'd felt as if my Saturn Return's distilled lesson of realizing what the steps have led up to, that it was in vain.
So thank you for the lovely, timely reminder. I'm glad for surfing the waves, as I tell a certain person whom I trust deeply, even if I fall off the board! ;) And for the number of times I look at my chart, I just realized in the past few days that Saturn's conjunct my Leo MC! During the petulant stage I kept staring at the Venus symbol, wishing for that to conjunct my MC instead! Hehehe...LOL, that was at least amusing for the dogs. :) So off I go now to be a good, evolved Virgo-Sun, again.

As always many thanks for your wisdom.

Jessi

I forgot to mention that when I only knew my birth time as 10AM, my Venus was conjunct MC; then I had my Mom mail me my birth certificate, so it's now the correct chart with 10.26AM. So Venus no longer, Saturn instead. I'm glad to know the real chart nonetheless. :)

Mary

Hi Robert,
I would like to chime in on the Saturn article as well. The discipline is great comfort when you finally learn a bit of it. It seems that the security of knowing how one will respond to challenges is the comfort found. I have been working to see Saturn as the "reason things are the way they are" which lets me off the self pity hook, and allows me a benefit of not being "so surprised by life" that I can't take most of it in. Saturn has many benefits besides negative challenges. When one learns that, it is one of the easier planetary influences to deal with. Mercury is hard and angry. Mars is impossible some times and Venus can be deceptive as well. Saturn is the one we know will be true no matter how much it hurts.

Jessi

Dear Mary, the last sentence in your entry had me nodding my head vigorously! It is very true. Like I told someone I consulted recently, give it to me straight, I'd rather that than not knowing or the prettified version! :)

Robert

Hi dottie - You can't push the river, so relax into the process. That's Saturn's big lesson. You'll complete anything you want with persistence, another Saturn quality. Set your drumbeat, do the work, and no doubt you'll wind up exactly where you need to be. Saturn in your sign should bring you recognition for the work you've done by next Summer. Re-work some stuff while Mars is RX then leap forward in Jan-Feb.

Hi Henry - Your perfection is to take yourself less seriously and your responsibility to the world more seriously, and avoid the reclusive life by being willing to compete with the world AND learn cooperation. You are here to cheerfully learn to shine it on, and shine a light on all that you fear or desire to control. Of course the signs show significance, since the ruler of your Leo is in Cancer and the ruler of your Cancer is the Moon.

Hi Lori - Travel and higher education will teach you many things about yourself this lifetime, including self confidence. Saturn in Sag does show a dharma with horses, especially with what you've shared about your father. And now Saturn is teaching you through the Virgo filter, but you'll always reference it through Sag. I would think Saturn conjunct MC in Solar Return would show it's time for you to go public in some form of service. This would have happened several times throughout the life, but the sign would show the quality of what types of flowers you would put out to your world.

Hi Jessi - You're welcome. No Saturn lesson is "in vain." And Venus elevated is still important.

Hi Mary - There is a certain comfort knowing you possess "response-ability." We may not know everything there is to know, but at least if we have discipline and persistence we can come to some degree of knowledge and expertise in managing things. All the planets can be difficult at certain stages of our development, but at least with Saturn we eventually see what chains we get to throw off.

Lori

Hi Lori - Travel and higher education will teach you many things about yourself this lifetime, including self confidence.

Hi Robert, you are appreciated more than you will ever know!! Interestingly enough I used to be a travel agent from 1985 to 1992. The higher spiritual education has been going on all my life and on going. Life lessons seem to have included the understanding of my self vs understanding of others and the social vs the introspective and finding the focus and balance in that. Probably why I am happiest living in the mountains but within reach of the city - each offering something different. I live in Denver now but hope to live in the mountains again one day.

The interesting thing is that since the Saturn conjunct midheaven going exact in my 10th house on 9/25 ... after 2.5 years of healing time (not so long after 27 years of past stuff with 2 ex husbands, divorce, mom and dog passing over) - just this past weekend, my heart finally feels completely clear in moving forward. I am completely over the past. It's gone on all levels. I worked through it. The old energy cords are dissolved and gone. It's a good feeling and time for the new. That may be part of the 10th house energy. This has been and continues to be my starting over year. It's good!


Saturn in Sag does show a dharma with horses, especially with what you've shared about your father.

I've always loved them. My grandfather rode show jumpers competively and my dad grew up with that. I feel blessed that he allowed his kids to have horses. They shaped my life from age 7 to age 22. Check out:

http://www.youtube.com/watchv=zKQgTiqhPbw&mode=related&search=

This is one of my ideas of beauty and grace that would go along with my Saturn in Sag. This mare won the silver medal at the World Equestrian Games in Aachen Germany 2006 for the grand prix freestyle in dressage. The partnership between horse and rider is wonderful.


And now Saturn is teaching you through the Virgo filter, but you'll always reference it through Sag. I would think Saturn conjunct MC in Solar Return would show it's time for you to go public in some form of service. This would have happened several times throughout the life, but the sign would show the quality of what types of flowers you would put out to your world.

Virgo is my love of natural and holistic health & y Mars and Mercury there. I used to do alot more teaching (metaphysically) of classes, workshops, writing, authoring etc but the past 10 years many events put that up on the shelf. Perhaps it is time to start doing more of that again.

Its funny that you would say flowers - my soul name Alaeyash means "soothing flower of light." I have jupiter in Libra natally and that has brought lessons in both the inner and outer beauty of all people, places and things. Outer appearance doesn't matter - only the spirit within.

Love, Blessings and thanks as always,

Lori

Lori

Hi Robert,

I think one of Saturn's most important lessons is that each of us (myself included) are accountable for self, responsible for self and how we choose to qualify energy, thoughts, words and action. In other words each one puts the pebble in the pond and the ripples go out. No one is better or less ... and it's the spirit within that matters - not outer appearance.

I forgot to mention - (my Saturn in Sag in the 1st house) the You Tube link I mentioned is Andreas Helgstrand and Blue Hors Matine. He's also been to the Olympics. You can see the love, beauty, grace and partnership between horse and rider. She's elegance personified inside and out. (My Jupiter in Libra). Sometimes a special horse comes along that uplifts and inspires others on a global level - she's one of them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKQgTiqhPbw&mode=related&search=

Thanks Robert for being there :) Put in a good thought that I find a good job soon after being laid off, it is my intent.

Lori :)

Stevo

Hi Robert, it's Stevo. Hope all is well with you! You know? I have never asked you about me having Saturn(Aries 20+)on the MC (opposition Merc Lib 18+). I've read just a little R. Hand stuff on it. And unfortunately, there's lots of doom and gloom about this on the Net. What's this "really" all about? I have a few important Capricorn affairs in my life. And I've met several Capricorn people throughout Sat in Leo. How can this be such a bad thing?

Patricia H

Hi Robert,

Great article and something I have been thinking a lot about lately.

I am experiencing Sat opp Sat at the moment. Saturn will soon square my N Mars and then soon after that conjunct N Uranus conj Pluto. It's in the middle of a T-Cross.

And what I have found is that getting back to basics is what works for me. I did not get the big job that would please my ego, but I have found that by aiming lower instead of higher, I might just satisfy my soul.

In the U.S. culture, (notice I am not including all of the Americas), there is this higher aim, always go for the top rung and that sort of thing. But isn't that all about ego and competition?

I think Saturn might just be the great humbler (coin the word). The leveler of ego into soul. We need that at the moment if we are to make it through all of this chaos and ego-mind bending that is occuring in the world. To be humble is to be great. And the greatest ones ever in my opinion practiced humility.

peace,

P

Kathy Davison

Hi Robert,

Well, boyo, you've done it again. I have FINALLY made Saturn my friend, and now life is looking up, step by step. Cheers, k

Henry

Hi Patricia & Robert.

Patricia, I agree anew with you.
In my personal case I've been experiencing it at last times.
Working in an American-styled "be always on the top" company brought me, with my first Saturn-Sun conjunction, Saturn Leo revolution in 9th and Jupiter cojointing Asc. Scorpio, lots of recognition and success, although I do not consider myself an "ego-maniacal" guy, it wasn't all that bad but I still felt inside it wasn't the kind of "success" that fulfills my very Soul. Like a kind of "pompose" yet "void" success.

When Saturn cojointed my MC (22º Leo) square my Natal Jupiter (25º Taurus) and opposing Neptune transiting IC Aquarius (22º), and as this companies always demand out-of-reach increased gains yearly more than the year before, my business "collapsed" by lack of increasing gains, not losing, -simply impossible to achieve-, being have made the same efforts on my part, my abilities and my very self started to be questioned strongly by my bosses and I realized from where came so much recognition: from an illusion.

So with this Saturn in Leo I had a double-edged experience, and have cleared very well what fulfills me and what not, what is water and what is poison.

Now I go on there, but with current Saturn in Virgo in 10th I realized I want to somewhere more humane instead than higher and egoitical, and I am already studying new practical and detailed materials (Virgo)to prepare myself for ways that suit me better in the future.

Parafarasing your words:
"But isn't that all about ego and competition? I think Saturn might just be the great humbler (coin the word). The leveler of ego into soul. We need that at the moment if we are to make it through all of this chaos and ego-mind bending that is occuring in the world. To be humble is to be great. And the greatest ones ever in my opinion practiced humility". Yes, Patricia, IT'S THE VERY TRUTH, in my opinion.

And there's the ring: How could I did not know this before?. Saturn walks slow, it feels like you could have known before your destiny.

Henry

Adding: I've seen the articles on Gandhi. This multinational superpower enterprises are -I think- Mars ruled, because they rule by greedy eliminating others rights to trade for living -eliminating little competitors and fighting the big ones among them-, creating "heroic" figures around the most productive "soldiers" (commercial sales agents, f. ex.), and exalting the laws of wild competitivity and market-dominion as a religion, as the Company you work for as God itself.
Yes, I learned to be a better competitor and developed personality strenghts with Saturn in Leo transits, but I prefer to compite in most humanitarian challenges and less wild scenarios...

Blessings.

Robert

Hi Lori - That horse dances better than any person I've seen! The video is one of the most amazing viewing experiences I've ever had. Thanx to two of my exes from Texas I've seen high level dressage performances in the past, but this was something on a higher plane, a perfect union of horse, rider, rhythm set to music perfect to allow the horse to do its amazing dance steps.

If we hang in there long enough to gain wisdom from our experiences, we can find an understanding of the value of every Saturn virtue. Glad that at close to the Saturn return of when this began for you, you've found completion. I'll bet you're even breathing differently. It took me about 2 weeks short of 7 years to get completion on major life-altering grief, so I know that peculiar sensation.

I suspect that with this new platform of self-awareness, what's coming will draw together many of the skills and potentials of your past in familiar but new ways. What is truly one's own can never be lost, since skills and gifts inevitably get resurrected for new times as new needs arise. You may not be doing the same things in the same ways, but you'll be doing a synthesis in new circumstances. With Jupiter in Libra, it would seem your blessings are in making a more beautiful ideal world however that is possible wherever you are. And I'm sure you have a gift for flower remedies and art therapy!

Of course you're right about each of us being accountable for thoughts, words, and deeds. It's how we both work through and create karmas. When we're hit with a challenge, we can stop unfortunate tendencies that create negative results in our future and replace them with constructive responses which will generate beneficial effects. And yes, each has their unique time and form of fulfillment, rewards, and blessings, so it's folly to compare our process to anyone else's. And truly, may you find more than work - may you find the perfect situation for you to embrace a more abundant and fulfilling future, where you can be productive, demonstrate your gifts and skills, be recognized and rewarded for them, and cultivate even greater skills for future use. May Divine Mother bless your every effort.

Hi Stevo - Other than wishing I had a way to clone myself, it's all good. Open to life as a learning adventure, never get too narrow or pessimistic in your thinking, especially about supposed rules or limitations that aren't yours, and cultivate realistic optimism through seeing an organized plan clearly with an eye to consequences of particulars. Keep widening your view, widening your knowledge, widening your sense of personal and spiritual competency. It shows Capricorns can help you get clear about what does and does not work in your life coordinations and what duties are and are not for you to execute.

Hi Patricia - Great time for rethinking why you're doing what you're doing the way you're doing it. Use disciplined energies to drop useless distractions, aggravations, and impulses that throw you off course and balance. Charge into the hidden zones of suppressed anger, examine it from an impersonal angle, and find ways to transmute useless steaming into focused power of accomplishment. Late August through mid-September gave you a practice field.

Good you're catching a breath before setting off on a grand adventure (which inevitably beckons when one gets too comfortable!) Friendly competition yields very good results. Coordinated group striving can bring forth miracles. Saturn is the great humbler. Saturn is where our cultural biases and limitations meet our transpersonal obligations and the Higher Law of our Being. It's where our worldly rubber meets the spiritual road. And when our karma runs over our dogma enough, we do learn humility, and open to greater possibilities.

Hi Kathy - "Step by Step" was a great song by Johnny Maestro and the Crests of "16 Candles" fame.;-) (The song, not the movie!) Glad you're looking up anew. Once Saturn's our friend, the chains of life become lighter. Cheers indeed!

Hi Henry - It sounds like ever since Saturn crossed your Sun and Leo planets you've done some fairly heavy reorienting away from normal interpretations of what is desirable and old limitations. You're right in that "recognition and success" are not that fulfilling, except temporarily. Not bad things to build on, but ephemeral over the long haul. Sometimes people can use their recognition to accomplish great things, like Bono has done for the Third World.

Saturn will be in your 10th for some time, so start creating a long term plan for what flowers you want to harvest 7 years from now. And you seem to know to pay attention to details, be realistic about what you may or may not be interested in long run, and make sure it's practical and of use to some thing the world genuinely needs. Obviously you're better off not working for egos driven by impossible expectations, and of course you're right that it's a symptom of the present corporate delusion of ever expanding profitability. On a final note, you couldn't have known Saturn's full nature until it went a complete cycle in your life. Another Saturn quality is that it skips nothing, overleaps nothing, takes account of everything, moves of its own necessity, and not a bit slower or faster based in anything external to itself.

While there is much in the way of Mars energies in and between nations, ultimately it's all about power and control, which are Saturn. Saturn binds all the planets inside its orbit. It tends to dominate any "gathering" of planets. Even when there are invisibles present, Saturn still controls the agenda of all the other planets since it defines the boundaries of what can and cannot be seen and done within the larger realm of the visible solar system. Be the Divine Competitor/Cooperator in a larger system of useful service, attract the best circumstances to further your abilities to do what is true, good, and beautiful, and enjoy the ride that will inevitably come. At some point you may want to read or re-read the Bhagavad Gita for a refresher on the ultimate Dharma of the Spiritual Warrior.

Henry

Thanks for your large insight, Robert!!.

Well I thought Saturn was the beginning of a long-term "something" very important, it certainly made me develop my Leo traits as a "a man of world" and I gained a lot of self-confidence during the process, thanks then to the Lord of the Rings, and to Jupiter expansion cojoinig my Asc. then (both square)!....

But as people with a strong 9th house -like you and me, if I'm not wrong- always saw or try to see "the largest picture", and then we made the larger writings (laughs ha ha!), Saturn has been transiting my 9th, where oneself's Divine truths reside (I think you consider this).

For next "Ring Pass Not" friends (Virgos), my insight on my expierence of this giant stone in Leo is resumed in two concepts:

1. By means of sign, great. It truly develops the characteristics of the sign involved as a solid foundation in your deepest depths (Leo: generous responsabity and authority, genuine light-shinig based on heart-purpose, self-confidence, tasks accomplished in the "big way").
This is INNER process making Saturn in Leo your friend.

2. By means of house (9th), and following your thread on the 9th being the Truth in which we pave our way in society later in 10th, I have endured some hard lessons but ultimately I have a very, very clearer idea of what's my truth and what is not truth to myself (9th house issue, I think). What resonates with you and what do you repel.

It's curious than even before I have realized spiritually that I was not fulfilling my true path before experimenting setbacks, it went apparently "well", until when Saturn reached my MC degree things began to collapse and manifested on the material plane.

So, seeing the 9th house large picture, Saturn put a material brake to make me reconsider things in an unavoidable way...YOU CAN NOT GO ON THIS WAY, said to me. A closure to 9th's new wisdoms for me. And as inside, it manifested outside (Saturn).

Hope my experience will serve Mercurian Industrious Helpful Spirits. Good luck, Virgos!!.

Stevo

Thanks Robert! I also want to let you know that I've done wonders by keeping up with the Grand I points. I find these times are excellent for meditation and planning. Sometimes the decisions and forks in the road take care of themselves(!). I'm glad you're here for us! Be well my friend.

Robert

Hi Henry - Saturn does make adults of us, or create sulking stone faces. Saturn in the 9th teaches a more mature view of truth and offers insights into the wisdom of each of the worldly spiritual forms presented. And it definitely puts the brakes on whatever isn't real for us anymore, whether we think so or not.

Hi Stevo - Meditation is a good thing when the outer world gets weird! And of course, when we're in our groove, the forks do take care of themselves without a lot of sweat on our part.

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