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Comments

Pat

The problem is that none of the scientists can explain why the ice caps on Mars are melting. What has our atmosphere to do with that phenomenon? We have had a very cold spring this year and the data on world temperature shows the world cooled off last year. The problem with science is that most of the theories are simply that - theory. I personally believe the atmospheric changes are more to do with where the solar system is currently strolling through the galaxy. The Mayan long cycle puts us ever closer to the galactic center and that may be putting more energy on the entire solar system - but I am not a scientist and don't know. One drawing I saw visually depicted the galactic center as a flat line with the solar system on a curving line that flows up and down in motion over time. The solar system is a speck compared to the vast galaxy. While there is nothing wrong with trying to clean up the planet to make the food and water more safe, I don't think it will matter one bit when it is time for the planet to flop on its side to rebalance itself, or blow itself up with earthquakes to release pressure. This whole business of climate change seems like another way for big business to make a lot of money. Everything is regulated - for what? Who benefits?? Now even the damn tires will be federally regulated because someone had a flat tire. Good grief! When will it end? When we are completely bankrupt. You can take almost any government policy (policing) and trace it back to someone's lawsuit or some businessman's scheme to make money off the backs of taxpayers the world over. People everywhere have been using the toilet for millions of years, and consuming food, and burning fires, and mountains have spewed lava. This fear mongering has got to stop before the idiot elitists decide to kill off half the world's population "to save the planet" for themselves!

Mary

I wish I could get past the suspicion that the concerns for the earth's atmosphere is driven by merchants who feel they can't get their hands on enough product to sell. I wish I could get past the idea that the only changes that are going to occur with the earth are a large part of adaptation of the species and that the earth or natures response to a massive itch. Humans have always thought that because they are made in the image of God that they should do Godly things. In this case I think the best thing people can hope to do is hunker down and be prepared to pay through the nose for these massive changes. A good way to stop part of the madness would be to outlaw the war in the middle east. That should save a few gallons of fossil fuel and cool things off a bit.

Robert

Hi Pat - Well, I'm not sure we know enough to equate what's going on with two bodies that are between 50 and 100 million miles apart at any given moment, though I am willing to accept there is much going on with the Sun that is not easily explained by our limited measuring devices. Some Springs on Earth have been very cold, others much warmer than usual, especially north of the Arctic Circle and south of the Antarctic Circle. Don't know of any data that show the world cooled last year. Everything I've read indicates exactly the opposite except for certain local areas. It's fairly well established that the Arctic Sea no longer completely ices over where it used to, and the satellite photos clearly indicate the Larsen and Ross Ice Shelves in Antarctica are perilously thin, jeopardizing the glaciers just behind them. This is definitely happening at least partially because of excess Carbon Dioxide in the atmosphere.

There may also be a Solar Systemic or even Galactic influence, but I'll go with what we can concretely measure right now, such as the amount of slippage each year of the Greenland ice cap. It has been accelerating radically in recent years if a lot of measurements are to be believed. The Mayan long cycle isn't putting "us" closer to anything. The movement of the Earth relative to the Sun relative to the Galactic Center is what's putting us in line with that cluster of black holes.

Actually, I believe that EVERYTHING we do or don't do matters to All-That-Is. It may or may not "make a difference" regarding the Earth's inevitable changes, but doing nothing is not an option if we want to live a sustainable reality. While Earthquakes have been happening since the beginning, we do have choices how to handle such disasters, separately and together. Big business will always try to take advantage of all it can. But they very well could be the engines of change that can redirect some of the momentum away from the brink of self-extinction. So what if they make money if we can reduce the carbon imprint which is impacting the environment in major ways? While I agree the entire concept of profit without conscience is a lousy way to run a world, perhaps what's coming is a much needed wakeup call so we can begin to structure a long term sustainable reality.

Hi Mary - Of course they're trying to profit as much as possible off everything. And yes, the Earth does have more than one itch to scratch which will impact its life forms in dramatic ways. We're actually all learning that we all hang together or else we most assuredly will all hang separately, to quote Dr. Franklin. I agree that outlawing war everywhere would be a good place to start, along with widespread implementation of HHO (water car) and new battery technologies, going all out Solar and Wind technology, and at night shutting off the lights and ACs of the biggest buildings all over the world. However, as Saint George the Beatle put it, "But it's gonna take money, A whole lot of spending money. It's gonna take plenty of money, To do it right, child. It's gonna take time, A whole lot of precious time. It's gonna take patience and time, To do it, to do it, to do it, to do it, to do it, To do it right!"

ann

Hi Robert.. definitely true what u had written in this interesting article..we must do something definitely as our world is getting tremendously bizarre with the freak weather and etc.Despite warning by scientist all over the world decades ago on global warming,none of the government seems to listen enough and yes,its about time that we all took some serious actions on this matter..
Anyway,I had been trying again and again on the paypal,yet it just stated there,payment couldnt be made for now....and this is really boggling my mind too as I really want to get a reading from you....Is that mean that I just cant get any reading till a better time? :) as it is,I ve been using my credit card directly in the internet,i just dont understand how come with paypal I couldnt..anyway,have a wonderful week ahead my dearest Robert..

Robert

Hi ann - Sorry you're having such problems with paypal. I've had several recent payments from clients and donations from supporters of the site, so I know it works. There must be an answer on your end somewhere, since it's still working fine from my end. Why don't you email paypal and find out why it's not taking your card? I'll bet it gets solved PDQ.

Micheline

HI, I can not remember when I rode in a car last. Maybe once this past year. I only use the public transportation (very rarely take a bus if I even do) and I ride my bike everywhere. But I know, that this is not ENOUGH. I use plastic, everything is wrapped in plastic. All the things I use, use machines to make them and they use oil.....The list goes on. We are caught in a loop. Someone, needs take out that pair of scissors and cut the loop and stop this madness.

Thats what I think. Maybe thats a bit severe.

Micheline

HI, Robert thanks for this I just joined and posted the website on myfacebook as well...I am getting inspired to do another charity event. I think I will do it for them perhaps somehow. Once I find the time to get in touch with thme and see how they develop their ideas more. I will start planning and looking at some ideas. It would be a music event to raise funds for them and spread awareness.
I just got a bloody wild idea. Ooohhh....the wheels are turning. I wonder how much it would cost to make an international commerical and get commerical time. I could raise money to make a very short and powerful commercial. OOOOHHHHHH if you did it right it could be very powerful

Nicole

Hi Robert, thank you for posting this very important article and thank you also for answering as you did to the comments of Pat and Mary. We are all, unfortunately, dependent on money coming in, so what is wrong with making money on sustainable products and green energy. That is far, far better than raking in the profits from having everyone dependent on big oil. This is not a conspiracy by Mr. Hansen and Al Gore but misinformation by the oil, car, and energy cartels who do not want us to understand that there is truly free energy to be had.
What makes me really sad is that "we" knew all this would happen in the seventies but were ridiculed as wanting to lead the world back into the stone age. Had we been successful in leading people to a sustainable life style then, we would not be in such a bad situation now. Even in 2000 we still could have steered the world from the brink of disaster. Now we have 2-3 years left to completely change the thinking and behavior of billions of people and that is not going to happen. Now we are truly on the steep incline back to the stone age and it is precisely because we were systematically kept from building a sustainable life style and free energy systems.

Felita

Hi Robert and others, this is important in regards to climate change. An Australian Enviromnmentalist who is quite concerned. Professor Tim Flannery said "radical action has to be taken because of the extremely high speed with which climate change is happening" His solution "to pump sulphur into atmosphere in order to repel Sun's rays...Solar dimming". The sky would be purple!
Intersesting information
htpp://au.news.yahoo.com/080519/21/16x6p.html

popp

First this climate change hype is first and utmost, good for the planet Earth. People are moving altogether towards more sustainable and simple ways of living, which is far better for everyone.
Then as 2012 approaches, it seems everything is just converging and accelerating. Science is exponential, computers are as well, technology is the same, free spirituality, alternative medicines, new world inspiring ideas, climate change, geological phenomena.. I dont now, but it seems there seems to be happening something that Terence McKenna long ago was referrering to.
Maybe the world will continue, evolution is for sure to continue, we will be here in 2013 and there is an ongoing leap in evolutionary matters. Maybe as you frequently state the world is going to change dramatically in a period of years, and then calmly rebirth to something new, where I strongly think, that the spiritual world and the physical world will be far far closer, the possible meaning of so-called ascension that so much new age speaks about.
Furthermore, in my dreams (which humbly, show a fair degree of accuracy) point to this kind of future scenario (but not forgetting the future is not written in stone!).
I commonly dream of a more sustainable high tech future, more evolved but more simple, with less people around, different climate, and with lots of people living in spiritual self-sufficient communities in rural landscapes, whereas in cities flying devices abound, computurized buildings, aboundant plant greenhouses, somewhere in between 2050 and 2070, but always with dreams of much social and climatic upheavel until 2020. Then I have fantastic dreams in year 2500 when everything seems very suntle, mystical and magical, if this is solely my imagination I will put my efforts in co-creating all of this here then!

Pat

Hello,

I mean no disrespect to anyone, but when I responded to Robert it was regarding the idea of global warming and the profiteers, and the question - Is it real? I am an organic gardener and sell at a farm market near my home. It is surprising the things people say to me when I try to sell them a tomato plant, like "No thanks,I buy tomatoes at the grocery." What I think is that when all the truck drivers stop moving supplies, people will be forced into either self-sufficiency, or they will become criminals and steal from people like me who grow and preserve food. Few people really respect farmers and/or people like me who grow and preserve whole foods. I even have organic tobacco. An old farmer told me that in the old days they picked off the tobacco worms every morning but now the fields are only sprayed once and it kills the worms all season - woe to you smokers is what I say. My son's room-mate switched to the organic indian tobacco and now only smokes 2 cigarettes a day - 1 at noon and 1 in the evening. I have an abundance of wildlife and pollinators on my small 5 acre plot and it is a wonder to behold on a dry summer day, to observe their hard work. My mother taught me that it was better to raise enough food for everyone, including the homeless, friends, relatives, and little critters that survive on my spot of the land. Most of the people I observe, aside from other gardener friends, are squeamish about bugs and such and will hit the RAID can as soon as they see one. They will complain to a store manager and even SUE if there is anything wrong with a purchase. I have to pay insurance for some of the stuff I sell, because Americans as a whole, are a litigious bunch out for blood. You don't have to have a lot of money for someone to try to take it away from you. We've all seen videos of what happens when food is scarce. The same people who won't eat food from Wal-mart, won't tolerate a bug in the yard or in their homes. They spend too much on cars, computers, furniture and clothing too. It takes 80 million barrels of oil a day to make all the plastics and oil products we use (google this and see for yourself) - most of your clothing is oil-based polyester.

For me the alarm bells are ringing because there are enough "elites" in government and business to cause the widespread famine, food shortages, and disease with intention to kill off large numbers of population groups and 'save' the planet for themselves. Google this and see what you find - "ebola" and "Prince Philip" for one. Aids is another that was likey man-made to reduce the population in Africa. Now we see people eating mud pies in India and the people in Haiti are starving. Why? Their climates support crop production so how can this be? This week it is being reported that in South Africa the immigrants are being tortured and murdered. Why? Africa must have the richest resources in the world, but who controls the resources? Things are not what they seem at all. The questions about global warming on the other planets are not being answered. I found an interesting article about this with a reference to a NASA scientist who said it was weird what was going on in the universe but they are not allowed to talk about it. ????? If I can find the link I'll write again. My spouse and in laws are Native American. They have long said that the circle of life is closing, meaning it is ready to start over. But what does that mean? In the stories passed down through the generations, they were told that the sun always rose in the west and then one day when they woke up the sun rose in the east and since then it has risen in the east. In the early 80s we were heavily involved in the work of bone desecration - native remains stored in universities were gradually returned to the people for proper burial. That is another of the prophecies that has come to pass. The prophecy said that when the people were all reburied the circle of life would come to a close. The indians didn't understand the prophecy because the people were already buried - but this was before the anthropologists decided to dig up their bones and ransack their graves. The bones have all been returned to the people.

Robert

Hi Micheline - Everything has been made dependent on oil, and yet we could shift everything within a few years if we wanted to. Right now it's so expensive it is driving change, and that's why the greed heads are going full tilt boogie for the gelt. Sometimes "charity events" actually serve to raise awareness which long term is a very good thing since it ultimately recruits people who care about making a better world. I did dozens of events for UNICEF, worked for Seva Foundation, Save the Children, Austin for Africa, and a bunch of other causes years ago. While raising money is always a good thing, I found that targeting specific needs gives people something tangible to focus on, like river blindness in Africa, or corneal transplants and fixing cleft palates in children in India, etc. An international commercial is good, since you may be able to get some funding from Al Gore's charity. However, make sure you target the cablecast source well, since advertising is a black hole. If it's well done enough, putting it on YouTube gets more notice quicker.

Hi Nicole - Given the way the world works, I believe that the change will be relatively gradual in some respects, very dramatic in others. It's more a process of educating people who are taking things for granted regarding the banks, insurance, energy, food and so forth that there are other equally valid and sustainable ways to live our lives, individually and collectively. Yes, energy is free. Tesla knew that, and was killed for his troubles. But I believe it's so far gone right now globally that everyone knows we must move on beyond oil and coal. And of course, nuke anything is bad for everything and everyone given the alternatives. Yes, many of us knew and tried our best in the 70s, and were in fact ridiculed for our efforts. Think Ronald Reagan tearing the solar panels Jimmy Carter installed off the White House. "They" were in our face, and didn't give a tinker's dam what anyone else thought. RR created the seed bed for the proliferation of Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Abrams, and the rest of the bad seed that have ruined our country and a good part of our world. And you're right, now there's precious little time, fewer resources, and much, much more destruction. But free energy is a reality, as is the global awareness among millions that there's got to be a better way. So now we're building for the future, and for all time.

Hi Felita - Not sure pumping sulfur into the air is a good thing, since it will destabilize other elements of our biosphere. That's the problem with quick fixes. We just don't know about the unintended consequences of such things.

Hi popp - Yes, all the focus on new ways to live has to have a better effect than not talking about it, and yes, things are converging and accelerating to fail safe, after which we'll be doing our thing much differently than in the past, regardless of the politicians. They tend to follow when people awaken to action!! The private sector drives the engines of change, and the governments try to take credit after the fact. I believe we have some great technologies that once implemented, will show us the way beyond what has been a disastrous experiment in human greed run rampant. Chaos must challenge old systems before new systems can grow. Your dreams somewhat mirror those of others. Future generations will be living in a much greener world where things work together rather than competing for the ability to destroy. Humanity is definitely on the path of return, and it's just a matter of time before the dinosaurs all die off.

Hi Pat - We cannot be distracted by what seems to be. We can only participate with others who share our vision and dreams. Those who remain addicted to Raid and oil will suffer. Those who join together with their neighbors will not be looted by desperate people. It helps to have a decent plot of land and not be stuck in the cities.

As for legal problems, yes, anyone can sue anyone in the US, but the suits can also be thrown out PDQ if there are no damages, which have to be proved by the plaintiff. So it's really not that expensive or complicated to dismiss frivolous lawsuits. I also have read the elites are striving for population control (they always have!) and are using a variety of means to achieve that end. I figure it's important to pick our battles, since we can waste our lives fighting the beast, or build for the future with like minded Souls.

I know that in previous times the Sun rose in the West and set in the East. It is a common record among the ancient peoples around the world. Velikovsky was ridiculed for his research in that area. Oh well. I'm sure we shall see it again, whether in this lifetime or another. But it doesn't mean we ALL are doomed to suffer. Many will outlast and outlive the chaos and prosper anew. We are the midwives and midhusbands of a new world a-borning. Not everyone will be farmers, though many will. And given the nature of our path of return, this Dwapara Yuga is already demonstrating the remembrance of the electromagnetic nature of Creation.

Not that far down the road we'll find ways to replenish the topsoil using electricity conducted and transformed through the Earth Herself within the larger magnetic field of the Solar System. All things we know are forms of Solar force in various frequencies of density. There are miracles and wonder to come in the midst of the changes, and not all is lost. In fact, our collective future is very bright, and we're participating in the healing of the larger field by our actions, thoughts, and feelings generated right now when the "tension of opposites" is resolving and healing the "heresy of separateness."

ann

My dearest Robert,thank you,I will do as you suggested..its not that they did accept my credit card as I ve tried using it for other purchases and succeeded...hmmm..anyway,hope to find a solution to this soon...thank you

Pat

Robert,

What a nice response and a blessing too!

Thank you, Pat.

Felita

Hi Robert. I also do not agree with the method, just amazed at the absurd ideas brought on by the desperation out there to fix the problem that they should have looked at 20yrs ago, purple sky seemed cool!

Felita

Hi Robert. Hey it's like me again! busy and busy!
concerning energy descent, peak oil and global warming.....another site.www.transitionculture.org/
provides some solutions to forging into a self substaining world. I am personally considering a big move to a transition town in mountains 200km inland from coast. Now, there is a song title, anyone?
"Transition town"...
Have a happy,sunny day
Felita

Cindy

Robert - I haven't read or commented for a long time. But I am worried about this little village in which I live, in southwest Ohio. I read the columns in the past about the great changes we are going through. And here locally we are seeing a stand being taken by a group of people who do not mean well for the local area. I live across the street from Antioch College, which historically was always identified with the peace movement or social change - maybe too much so or irresponsibly/sloppily so. But now the conservatives of the area appear to be determined to force us to become a defense-sector village - without public participation or comment (in fact, they filed a SLAPP suit against the Village for even trying to openly discuss their plans). I know Pluto in Capricorn is all about that order trying to fight to keep its control over things, and another world trying to be born - but it is very painful to be right on the edge or in the middle of the people working to destroy. I'm sorry. I don't just see them as profiteers any more. They're more ruthless than that. They want no challenge to their power and control - which does not bode well for people like me and my husband. Thanks for your site and its discussions.

Cindy

I almost forgot. I have 3 planets in 2nd house Capricorn (Sun, Moon, Mercury) and Sag rising (of course). So I guess these transits are hitting me particularly in a sensitive spot (husband is Sun in Capricorn also, don't know ascendant). Ego crucifixion is what it does feel like some days, as I too, not just Antioch College, have believed in some things that seem to be repeatedly defeated in my day-to-day life by more powerful others. Only the visit of 2 Tibetan lamas 2 weeks ago, and my mother's 90th birthday in Indiana last weekend (with visitors attending from LA to NY, including my sister, a student of various spiritual paths) lightened the load.

Felita

wrote this at 9.45 tonight . Freaked myself out. I wonder why constantly, It seems relevent in a bizarre way.Looked at a chart for that time,4* Aquarius rising,too much happening in it, knew best not to analyse , not at this moment I think!

We are empowered by the light of Glory
Bowing down to humility
Among many men faces fall down to sob
All people renouncing impoverished minds
Seal the honour in the sacrifice given
for the Golden ones.
Heart fed minds evolving

seriously felt serious for some hours before, but content and centered...feel I am sharing something weird at times. Aum Namah shivaya

popp

Hi Pat and Robert,

its really happy to see you in the same wavelenght.
i am also willingly to become a farmer; its taking time and time since we are hardworking towards joining the necessary money to buy a small property; we are still in our mid twenties and sometimes it feels really deep to decide to go into these ventures of self-reliance
anyway, I am reading about organic and biodynamic farming, ecology and new energies, and meanwhile we grow only in our small urban balconies. But last year I was growing about a 100 species of medicine herbs, flowers and food, solely in containers!
I am now doing this and by 2010 when big crisis strikes, I plan to make the move, at least we are trying to diligently following our intuition, but you know how life is unpredictable; i am one that believes that by 2012 spiritual realms will be closer, but we will remain here although much will be in change and cleansing. and, Pat, although not there, but still here in present moment, I am already feeling the circle closing and reopening, at least in my deep inner self and life.
feel free to share more privately to my email popplagid at yahoo dot com

popp

By the way Robert, which forms of free natural energy are you aware of?
I have read lightly of tesla energy devices and other static electricity or permanent-magnet based devices. But since I do not have much skill in electronics I never attempted that. Maybe something that someone here can give a try, who knows! Besides that there are the other conventional renewable energies

Pat

Hello Popplagid:

I am 57 but grew up on a farm. I am happy to hear about so many people trying to become self-sufficient. You can learn a lot by going to farm markets and asking questions of the vendors. They all love to talk about what they do and how they do it. The master gardener classes are great too - look at your state website to learn more. Their interests are all different - some like herbs, wildflowers, woodlands, orchards, vineyards, flower gardening or vegetable gardening or even gardening for bees and butterflies. It's so interesting.

I think that many preachers are teaching "the Christ Mind" in services now, without direct reference to the source of the teaching, Course in Miracles. There is great comfort in knowing that we are ONE BODY in Christ. In fact, when Jesus said "This is my body" at the last supper, he was talking about US. We are one with him and he is one with God, therefore we are one with God. The heresy of separateness is being healed very slowly but surely, as Robert said. It is easy to get angry and forget that basic tenet - we are all one - even the bad guys are one with us (use your own definition of bad guy and try to forgive him or her). I come from a Christian background but my family is Native American with belief in the progression of the soul, which makes sense to me. I enjoy Robert's teaching on Buddha.

popp

Robert and Pat, speaking again in global change, social revolutions of agriculture and economy models, climate and spiritual change and the coming T-squares in 2010 and 2020:

Please have a look at my latest analysis of coming T-squares from 2010 to 2020, and what may bring, as compring to the degrees and signs that were aspected in past 250 years:
In http://astrotransits.blogspot.com/2008/05/most-abrupt-changing-times-in-past-250.html

2010 will look like 1960s, 1810s and 1760s, possibly bringing idealistic and religious change, earth changes, some famine and issues from the environment
2020 will look like 1930s, 1850s and 1770s, finally bringing of a so-needed abrupt global revolution

Pat

I will look at your blog - it sounds very interesting. In the 60s and early 70s many of us felt that resources would disappear and that we would need to know how to be self-sufficient. Magazines like Mother Earth News provided a lot of good information, and they still do. Many gardeners and farmers still write in to the magazine and share their success and failure stories.

The thing about joining with a group of gardeners is that regardless of your personal beliefs and/or life, you will meet many people who will help you on your path to self-sufficiency. One may have free garden space, another may teach you how to build a windmill, another will teach you how to keep bees, and so on. You build a network of people from all ages and abilities and beliefs, so you will have resources within your own community. The 60s saw a lot of people returning to the earth and somehow all the effort seemed to get lost during the rush to accumulate goods and money after Reagan became president. We were opposing plastic and heavy consumerism in the early 70s, but what happened? Nothing! The oil companies have bought out all the patents for alternate energy all these years and now they sit before congress and have the gall to tell us we drive too much. The goal all along was to get us to buy as much stuff as we could - and we do. Never have the groceries and discount stores been more full of oil produced products. In the old days, even the jelly jars were made of reusable drinking glasses. I was probably one of the few hold-outs that stayed with cloth diapers during the 70s. Today, the dumps are full of computers, printers, copiers and all the other plastics we consume. I don't have the answers to the problem, but have seen the commercials recently where one of the automobile manufacturers is using a plastic made from soy, so that is a step in the right direction. I'm wondering how the oil companies missed THAT patent.

Pat

Popplagid,

I looked at your blog and think it is right on target. There is a huge spiritual change coming. I tried to leave a comment but have to figure out my Google ID.

I was looking at my Locust trees (I have a lot of them) yesterday. They are in bloom but I was trying to figure out what was wrong with them. Then I realized there was no 'buzzing' sound. No bees! Then I looked at my neighbor's apple tree that sits next to my driveway. it had loads of blossom this spring - but there are no little apples forming. I haven't looked at my apple trees in back yet. I'm afraid to look. My new 2 year old pear tree didn't blossom at all. My crabapple blossomed and it has fruit (inedible), but it may be a self-pollinator.

Our weather is cold this spring - unseasonably so in Indiana. An old woman who lives in our neighborhood said 2 months ago that we would only have 1 or 2 days over 90 degrees. There may not be a lot of tomatoes or peppers here and corn production could go down too. Cold weather crops should do ok. Now would be the time to stock up on spaghetti sauce, ketchup, chili sauce, and any other tomato products your family uses. I suspect the prices will sky-rocket this year. Cold weather crops like cabbage, potatoes, onions, lettuce and greens should do ok. Buy vegetable seeds on sale at the end of the season and they will be fine for next year. Seeds actually store indefinitely when wrapped well and frozen. I met a farmer last week who raised popcorn from 1984 seed. Wheat stores well in clean 2 litre cola bottles - buy a bushel from a local farmer if you can to have on hand. Wheat found in the pyramids was planted and actually grew. Today it is sold as Kamut wheat (a very dark grain - early wheat). People with wheat allergies can usually eat Kamut with no problem.

Robert

Hi all - Great dialog, info, and links! Due to overwhelming work demands, I don't really have time to comment on all that's been said here right now. Still, there's so much good food for thought that covers a vast number of subjects it should be good for anyone else stumbling into this stream. Will try to jump back into this ongoing dialog in a couple of days or so.

popp

Hi Pat, you can leave there a comment with no ID needed. Just choose anonymous or name/url.
I will have a look if i find any organization of gardeners here where i am living at the moment. I am grateful for your suggestion :-)
yes most climate serius researchers foresee a cold year, due to la nina, and possibly years ahead due to changes in oceanic currents (it will be as cold as was during some years of the sixties). additionaly the recent volcanic eruption in chile may cool the 2009 summer significantly
i guess we should as gardeners prepare for more cold-weather cultures next year and not much in tomatoes, peppers and alike.
once concept that really strikes me is forest gardening, the art of farming in more harmonious relationships of mixed crops instead of chemical-driven monocultures
as a whole i guess practical solutions for every problem in society would be the most welcome, after all with pluto transiting capricorn, change will be mostly in a down-to-earth, resources-based and society-based way. we have to rethink of job system, health system, agriculture, science, climate adaptation, building, water resources, wildlife conservation, money system, urban planning, etc
thanks for your input and my wishes of all the best

Pat

One of the gardeners told me that he followed a sugguestion from Mother Earth News to put chickens in the greenhouse to keep cold weather plants warm enough in winter. You can harvest greens all winter and feed the chicks too. He had water in gallon sized glass jars to absorb the sun during the day, and had earthworms under a plank walkway down the center so was creating compost, able to give the excess worms to the chickens, fresh greens for the chickens all winter too and fresh organic eggs produced for the family. It was a great article. The greenhouse can be lined inside with bubble wrap (but it is plastic) to help the insulation.

I don't know too much about forest farming, but my mother grew up in the woods and I'm betting the gardening habits they used during the 30s would apply. They always had vegetables when the town people were going hungry, but one year it didn't rain for nearly the entire year. By the following spring they were hungry for greens and berries and they canned everything they could pick (that is, wild food that was grown free). Cornmeal was the staple food for everyone that year. I don't know that Americans would know how to live like that today.

Popplagid

Hi all, Pat and Robert,
still regarding how the spiritual and personal awakening is coming to masses, please see the following beautiful article, from a channeled message
it foretells of a huge awakening to a heart-based society urged by the shifts in society and in the climate:

http://spiritlibrary.com/the-circle-of-grace/predictions-2008-the-year-of-global-awakening

Light for all
Pluto over Capricorn will surely bring an abrupt awakening and change to society

Robert

Hi popp - Not to sound like Andy Rooney, but.... While the message at that site is surely one of hope, I always counsel that we should be very careful how much we buy into "channeled" material. If a person cannot claim authorship of what they put out there, it speaks to me of a disconnect. (Yes, I know there is some legit material, mostly from the 1920s-1940s. IMHO, most channeled material of the past 50 years is glamorous repetitive cheerleading that isn't practical or useful for what humanity is now going through.)

From another angle, it is our Higher Self, and only our Higher Self, that makes any difference in this world, usually in community with like-minded Souls. And that is cultivated by no one but ourselves, and no evolutionary leap can result in anything other than what WE have cultivated. The Law is the Law. To believe otherwise is to deny the Prime Directive. Evolutionary breakthroughs only happen for those who have diligently prepared to approach the Threshold so that they are ready when the door swings open. And it does NOT open for those who have not prepared.

Over the decades, I've read/heard many glamorous pronouncements and speculations about the new era, and I've long maintained that if it ain't happening in Biafra or Bangladesh, then it's not a global phenomenon, but merely a local one. Let us not forget those whose lives are misery while we indulge the pronouncements of global ascension and such things. Something about "as you do for the least of these, you do it to Me...." If there is still child slavery in Africa propping up cheap chocolate and arms merchants running the global economy, then I cannot accept a "universal awakening to a higher moral standard." Perhaps widespread, but NOT "universal."

Many of us shall live to see better times and more humane ways of relating to All-That-Is, but only after the breakdown of the current way of life. No new order can establish itself until the old order has yielded its inertia to a form of chaos. While many are awakening to the need for doing their Beings in a better way, there are many, many more who are holding on to the heresy of separateness and ready to kill for that way of life. For humanity, this is the separation of the sheep from the goats, metaphorically speaking. Those of us who care for one another have a different destiny than those who care only for themselves, since this is, as Vera Stanley Alder put it, "The Initiation of the World."

popp

Good perspective Robert,

And what about the channeled of Ra by LL research, Seth by Jane Roberts, Abraham-Hicks with law of atraction, bringers of the dawn by pleidians and Conversations with God by Neale Donald Walsch.
Surely there the material may be partial or even total channeled solely from the author higher self such in the books of Donald Walsch but the most of this material (mainly Ra and Abraham) seems with common-sense and material that resonates with me. And fairly consistent too.
Of course I realize that there is a lot of "trash" out there...

Robert

Hi popp - I did an extensive answer in the comment stream of this post about Seth and why trance channeling is a very dangerous and often garbled way of getting information, even if some of it may be occasionally true. I gather from scuttlebutt that the Abraham-Hicks material is good for many who don't already know of such things, but "law of attraction" info didn't originate with that work, and so it's just a retelling of older source material. Reference Florence Scovel Shinn, who didn't channel anything but was speaking of such things almost a hundred years ago with authority.

Again, why attribute to some supposedly disincarnate higher being such mundane and already accessible material? Seems like higher beings would have other more important things to tell us than a rehashing of old stuff we already can access readily from many other sources. I read "Bringers of the Dawn" decades ago and found it to be pure garbage, a glamorous reinterpretation of Genesis with all its dualities, substituting "bad space people" for the Devil. For anyone wondering about some ideological flotsam circulating our planet, we NEVER had 12 strands of DNA, nor did we ever have 10 of them "stolen" by "evil space people" from anywhere. This is a pure fiction if we are to accept the source material from the Secret Doctrine. Evolution is a one way street, as far as the development of the human mechanism is concerned. If you want to know how our bodies, nervous system, and sensory mechanisms have developed these past 3 million years, the Secret Doctrine is THE source material translated over 120 years ago from chronicles more ancient than dust and absolutely legit in their provenance.

As for Neale Walsch, I don't know of his work, but if he claims authorship of it, then it's legit as far as that's concerned, but it may or may not be material for ultimate self-transcendence. I also have written many things that people assume I have "channeled." Sorry, but that doesn't wash. I know what the energies of certain very much "Higher Beings" feels like, having been responsible for a Wisdom School many years ago. With that direct experience of the Higher frequencies of consciousness, I will definitively state that even though the energies of "enlightened beings" can be very high indeed, none of my material is channeled. Again, reference the linked article to see why trance channeling is dangerous and requires a high degree of training AND the ability to totally stop doing it from time to time to rebuild the Astral web. Once that's shredded enough, expect psychological disorders and severe imbalances to show up in the so-called "channeler."

While there is a lot of material out there that comforts and provides "common sense material," common sense material is poor fare from a supposedly eternal higher consciousness. I am put off by mundane stuff and "spiritual cheerleading" attributed to Masters, since Masters just don't do those sorts of offerings. However, we do know that the astral and mental dopplegangers left behind when a body dies do often seduce the unwary into believing they're higher beings. The trap is that disincarnate doubles can only offer material already known. They cannot offer new material. That's why if the material is already in the collective consciousness, any retelling is probably not originating from a higher being.

Economy of Energy is one of the "Higher Laws" of our system, just as are "Magnetic Attraction" and "Synthesis." No Master of the Wisdom would knowingly attempt to work outside of these primary principles infusing all that is in our system. Economy of Energy dictates that the Master speaks but once, and the disciple gets to ponder and discuss that which was spoken with other disciples for an eon if necessary. Abraham-Hicks, Florence Shinn, and many others are only local interpretations and offerings of material originating long before either of them was born, given to their world in terms their world can understand. But I must again reiterate that those in our times who purport to channel Masters, Archangels, and the like are indulging in glamorous fantasies, given what we know of the evolution of consciousness and the task of human self-transcendence as offered by legit sources over many decades and centuries preceding 1950. After that point we are told from impeccable sources that the Masters withdrew to the Buddhic plane from the Manasic plane, thus preventing any more "channeled" material from being anything other than a rehashing of older material already extant in the collective consciousness.

Humanity must use the wisdom it's already been given. The world is constipated with realizations not being applied, and being told "it's all good my children" is pure pablum. Living our Higher Self is more like boot camp than kindergarden. As for most channeled material, I look at it as being like perfume - you can smell it, but you don't want to swallow it. And here I go again, beginning to sound like Andy Rooney...

popp

Yes its true Robert, but everyone is doing their piece of service. Does any of us is really writting, speaking or communicating anything new: I dont think so, we are just retelling old stuff, even in astrology, but that I guess it is a part of the game of life, where we may feel an affinity to a field and teach it again to the curious ones, like it happens in old time traditions where wisdom was always passed from one generation to the next. Nothing is this world if really new but it is the spark of creating that again with, shall I say, a different flavour that make our things criative, like making a new house or raising a child, or going into a new romance, even if that happen already thousands times in humanity history, in our past life history and even in our present life history.

I do assume many of these channeled sources are retelling but it is good when it can create an awakening effect in many. And in fact it does, and even when it is not new stuff, its fullfilling the purpose. I guess every wisdom goes backwards and backwards until the source. And in fact, we are also one, one source, so there are many variations of the same spiritual wisdom (its like religions, art movements or music styles!)

And, my appologies for disagreeing in part, but the world nowadays is in desperate need for bright ideas to be told to the masses, be they spiritual or practical, but it would be wise if even they are superficial they could create some awakening in some people, like they are doing. And the world is also in special need for the retelling of old common-sense wisdom that it is so lacking nowadays.

popp

and yes, thanks in deep gratitude, Robert, for providing us with other old sources like Florence Shinn :) In fact I had already read one of her books (in the game of life) and it was a pretty uplifting book!
I think all of us always have something to teach others :) and thats one bright side of life.

popp

sorry, but just one more idea (and forgive me for going off-board again) but at least what some channeled material in the eighties, like Ra by Don Elkins and Carla said about awakening masses and earth changes coming before 2012 is really happening, I think that even by 2012 nothing out-of-ordinary happens there is one global spiritual awakening unfolding (but still not masses) but like they have said 20 years ago, that old dark issues are coming to the bright lights, as that things would get polarized: as nowadays we are clearly seeing. Lets see what will happen, but surely there are still many life challenges, apparently 3D, at least in my personal life :)

Pat

Have you noticed how the negative things that have come up in the Obama campaign have also appeared in the Clinton and McClain campaign? I don't find that coincidental. In fact, there is another minister that I like to watch from time to time, or read his prophecies, and that is Kim Clement.

Now to back up a little - I normally do not like to read channeled messages either - but Kim has a gift too. Why I hesitate? An Indian medicine man cautioned me once about looking to spirits for answers - he said that there are a lot of unclean spirits out there just waiting for someone to invite them in. The invitation is all it takes. That is pretty much what the bible says too. Well a few years later we were having a sweat at my house, only my husband didn't like the people who came to sweat so he made an excuse to go hunting. Where I live there are not a lot of Indians, so when people were passing through they would ask to come out to use the sweat lodge - we live in the country and it is private. The sweat lodge is spiritual indeed, but subject to abuse. During the sweat, I went in even though it was men and women (we normally only sweat with just men or just women, or I will sweat with my family). This time was very special because when it was my turn to pray, the drumstick jumped out of the drummer's hand and began to beat the drum very fast by itself with no-one holding on. Then I saw a small dancing light that looked like a flame enter my body! From that point forward my life was not the same. I became sick and had many problems. Three years ago I went to a healer who turned out to be a 'spiritual' healer. He knew I was possessed but didn't tell me until much later. At one visit, I suddenly felt a burst of energy and my doctor jumped back like he had been hit hard. I started to cry and he hugged me. The session was over. I felt a little hollow and afraid. I sent an email to my doctor (yes he was an MD) and asked if it was an evil spirit that left and he said "yes but not the worst I've run into" at which point he also told me to not be afraid. We have to have faith in God. I told my husband about it so we now take extra care in what we allow on the TV and we stay away from the occult. As you can see, I'm drawn to astrology, but Robert is very different in that the approach is very spiritual - in a blessed way.

The indian who was praying in my tent, we later learned, was calling on the spirits of animals for strength - and that is a major no-no in the Indian world. A medicine man in a state that is 4 states away from mine, told his son who was also sweating with us that this was happening with this particular indian and he told him not to sweat with him anymore. We have not sweat for many years, nor allowed anyone to sweat here. In fact, a medicine man closed our sweat and we buried the rocks. We have talked about having a family sweat, but the power is great inside the sweatlodge and also dangerous for anyone who uses it for personal gain. My prayers were not bad - in fact I prayed for all children to be cured of disease and that is when the drumstick drummed alone. There was a child visiting with this group, about 18 months old, who was going blind. I touched the child before the sweat and said, "What's wrong with this kid?" in a gentle way. My prayer was for the child and the child I learned later, was healed and now sees.

Popp - just wanted you to know you have to be careful. At any vision, dream or any other thing that speaks to you, say "G-D, is this from you? If not, please take it away" This has worked for me for 3 years and every time the dream or vision will go away or stop. As Robert has said, there is much to be done - much love to give and much reaching out to do. Look to the Creator and have faith in Him.

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