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Comments

Chickie

Your HIGHNESS.....(yes the pun is intended!)

The lioness has finally AWAKENEND! Thanks to you and yesterday's performance of ONEBODY, directed by "CONVERSATIONS WITH GOD," author, Neale Donald Walsh. Please google him and find the nearest city in Ca to experience the experience!

Much love

Chickie

Annette

Useful post -- and interesting, Chickie, how even when one is born a Leo, Leo nature sometimes needs to be uncovered or discovered. Monarchy, I'm finding, must be earned, even if one believes in some sort of passively earned direct succession (or whatever the astrological term might be). In fact, one of the provocative things about astrology seems to be that being born to resources doesn't mean they've been already mined. Finding them is even more challenging than excavating them .

Chickie

Thank you Annette,

Except the shameful thing about me is avoiding, due to fear, or being passive about the things I already KNOW yet being Lucky enough (jupiter in pisces part of a grand trine in water) for something to come along like a hugh silver axe drops down upon my head to give me the "tune up" I need at the moment so that I may reiterate my own mantra..."find your mother and the rest will follow!"

Annette

Chickie,

I hope you will forgive the presumption, but I don't believe that there can be anything shameful about you -- or about anyone, really. In my experience, shame is imposed as a means of control (parents or authority figures), and when we have no control, we tend to internalize it.

There's always the next breath. Nothing is wasted. And there is no reason for shame. In fact, (and I can only speak for me), it's an emotional state of disliking oneself that stops further examination of whatever behavior or feeling -- and the reason -- we've been taught to feel shame about.

Why do you wait until pushed before moving? What's under the shame? I'm not asking you for an answer, but it's something to consider.

There's always the next breath. Again, please forgive me if I seem presumptuous.

Chickie

Annette

"Why do you wait until pushed before moving? What's under the shame?

I'm working on it.......if you visit my website, one would never know what a wimp I can be :)

Robert

Hi Chickie - Glad you've hit a groove. Got your emails. Interesting proposition. Will ponder on what could be done and when. Gotta love The Mother, since she brought us to the dance.

Hi Annette - We are born with potential, and it is up to us to make it actual. We do this through the oscillations between pleasure and pain on many levels until we resolve the polarity of the opposites and resolve the prime causes of planetary tendencies that lead to suffering. That's why there are good kings, as well as bad ones. Good priests and shamans, as well as bad ones. Eventually we come to pure loving wisdom that expresses as intelligence in action.

Shame is one of the means by which our internal "will to good" feels that our personality is somehow missing the mark. Sometimes this is a good thing. Other times, we are playing out a useless feeling of a learned behavior that cannot help us honor our inherent Divinity. The difference is the shame we feel when we haven't been taught a thing is shameful, but we know that it is not a good thing to do (such as violate the Golden Rule, for ex.) You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.... Personally, with Moon in Aquarius, I find it useless in most instances, since I'd rather just "go and sin (miss the mark) no more..." But there are those who refuse to heed, and must be made to feel, lest they continue to generate bad karmas in action, feeling, and thought and thus put their eternal Self in peril of occupying a shell of hurtful tendencies in a future life. Spirit uses all kinds of ways to get the attention of the ego.

Damien

'In fact, one of the provocative things about astrology seems to be that being born to resources doesn't mean they've been already mined. Finding them is even more challenging than excavating them.'


Annette that's one of the sexiest and most nerviliciously arresting turns of astrological phrasing i've heard!!!

Annette

Damien,

Thanks. What a surprising thing to say. I usually don't proof read well enough to be grammatically clear even. I appreciate the compliment.

Annette

Robert,

On shame -- is it really true that we have it inborn? I am not so sure. My experience has been that shame usually comes from the shadow of some rule from a childhood authority figure. Otherwise, it doesn't seem to exist for me at all. And I'm not exactly an angel. I do feel guilty when I'm not doing the right thing, though.

Annette

Annette

Addendum to last comment:

My childhood authority figures were about as dysfunctional as you can get. That's why the shame-as-learned-behavior seems so true to me when it only arises from mashugana rules.

larissa

Hi Robert - my mom was a Leo, most warm and generous soul I ever knew. I have Leo rising, she was Aries moon. we understood eahc other from one shared glance. Today could have been her B-day, but we all have what was destined to have. I am back from my motherland, still jetlegged. Visited mom's grave several times, saw whatever is left from my family there. House will be sold shortly. Feels like closure. Glad to be back to Florida.

Robert

Hi Annette - If you could, please group your comments in one since multiple comments force others downstream off the page. Also, do not hit the post button more than once. I don't like having to delete multiple duplicate comments.

As for shame, yes, it is inborn. We call that which recognizes shame "conscience." If we could not experience shame, we could never know how to grow into a state where that does not exist within us, not from shutting down or reactivity, but through enlightened view. The trick is not to reference others' moral view of what constitutes shameful behavior, but instead listen to our heart and then act accordingly. We must experience all the feelings humans feel in order to know how to be productive and not lose our spiritual equipoise in the face of the world's judgments re: shame, blame, etc. We cannot become that until we learn when it is appropriate, and when it is not.

Hi Larissa - You and your mom had a lot of major connections. This is a major closure/transition, when you have received powerful "cellular wisdom" transmitted when your mom left the body. You have now graduated into your majority in a different way than those who still have elders living, thus anchoring their own vintage of the family genetic wisdom force. Welcome back to the land of the flooded!

Chickie

About Shame. Do you ever feel bad about yourself and you don’t know why? I have. According to John Bradshaw in "Healing The Shame That Binds You," there are two kinds of shame: Healthy and Toxic. “In itself healthy shame is necessary to have the feeling of shame if one is to be truly human. Shame tells us of our limits.” However, he says, “Shame as a healthy human emotion can be transformed into shame as a state of being. As a state of being, shame takes over one’s whole identity. To have shame as an identity is to believe that one’s being is flawed, that one is defective as a human being. Once shame is transformed into an identity, it becomes toxic and dehumanizing."

Robert

Hi Chickie - It seems like Bradshaw took the general description of "anger" from Elizabeth Kubler Ross and replaced the word anger with shame. Not sure I agree with the correlation between shame and limits, unless limits are somehow related to shame as an expression of conscience. I actually feel we give far too much to power to shame, blame, etc. since dwelling on these lends them power.

Shame is but one element of the range of human emotions. We are "flawed and defective" until we walk the walk of personality integration and embrace whatever Higher Eternal Truth of Self that is our path to travel. Authentic shame shows us the way out of suffering, and is a natural part of recognizing our inner voice expressing the feeling that something is wrong. The only wrong is us not living our truth, integrity, aspiration, and heart-strength. By following shame to its inner source we find how we are not living our Higher Self. The experience of shame, whether appropriate or inappropriate, is an immediate call to witness our Truth of Being, our Eternal potential to become our Soul-force expressing our Will-to-Good.

Shame as a state of being is an illusion of identifying with something untrue. The cultivation of discrimination and dispassion immediately busts the game. Exploring how others are to blame for our identifying with shame is also an illusion, since the punch line is always "what are you going to do about it?" Even to affirm any element of our self identity is hooked into shame gives the illusion more power than it deserves. As long as we struggle with certain things, they remain victorious through our giving them power and reality. However, if we immediately embrace the quest for Truth-of-Being, turning to more positive actions, feelings, and thoughts, then the old patterns fall away quickly. And I may turn some of these thoughts into a post, since there are many hooked into the illusion of shame.

Chickie

Your Highness,

"Shame" may in fact be the wrong term Bradshaw chose to use as boundaries or limits. However I do believe and so do many sisterfolk feel that being nurtured with the La Storia di Garden of Eden with Eve taking the rap for the fall, no matter how symbolic its' supposed representation of "choice and free will,".....chicks from the old school got stuck with a stain that a truckload of yesterday's WISK and today's multifacted antidepressants aint gonna remove!

That said, my friend, is why the special people like you and a few others who escaped, are the minority and are stuck having the MAJORITY of shamed lunas banging away our typewriters on your brain!

Tutti Baci

ps to the rest of the guests. I am not assuming everyone on this blog is shamed.

Annette

Chickie,

I don't really feel royal -- in fact, it's taken me this long (and this much work) in my life to feel entitled to just be myself. One of my parents has narcissistic personality disorder, so most of the world was for years entirely surreal. Once I learned to see (and practice focusing on) an alternative, the shame from the old world disappeared. I haven't seen it since.

I see it sort of like brain science -- you find out a lot from the vastly abnormal case. And there are some commonly found tendencies/feelings (in more common circumstances) that simply don't apply when the tissue has developed or is missing what others have got. That's always how I've seen it, anyway.

Not sure what you mean by "banging away" on my brain -- I certainly didn't mean to offend in any way.

Kind regards,
Annette

Chickie

Dearest Annette,

There is a technical communication problem! The last note I wrote was in reference to Robert's last comment on shame.....and I always refer to him as "Your Highness." I was being "tongue in cheek" about him and other's like him who are of the higher mind and have been able to escape the shame and become great guidance counselors for people like me who are "banging away" daily on his brain.

As for brain science, with all my spiritual work and research, I've been successful at helping everyone else except myself and it just so happens that your "alternative" is what was professed by the pastor of this new spiritual center spoke of at the service yesterday. Thanks for being part of my synchronistic moment!

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