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Comments

kachina

It is quite saddening that those that project themselves due to a compulsive need to 'fix others or warn others' in some manner of a 'situation' that they deem harmful in some manner, are generally the one's that are quite unaware of our capacity to see our own reflection upon another and lack the understanding of individual perception prohibiting their ability to allow for free-thinking amongst all. Such unnecessary anger, grief and pain they carry, yet I suppose when it is time, they will see the Light(knowledge)..though I confess I do wish often a miracle panacea for this would rain down from the Heavens. :)

A few years ago, I stopped allowing myself to be baited, when I came to the conclusion for myself, that the arena of debunkers and skeptics is filled with people whom fight and argue against the reality of a subject/situation, without ever considering, that because of their acknowledgment of said subject/situation, it is indeed, a reality for them at that moment, until they choose for it nay to be.

I personally feel everything is a Reality,..it is just a matter of making the choice as to what you want to exist in your reality and how you wish to utilize said reality.

Thank you for sharing your perspectives Robert, never once do I visit here, and leave without having either learned something new or having been inspired to grow, even more. Blessings!

Susannah

Do verbal batterers also tend to state emphatically things like, "YOU always have to get the last word," or "YOU always have to be right" any time the non-battered person states something that might be in opposition to what the batterer is saying?

Great post. Spot on with my experience.

Josie

thank you for that article, Robert. i check your website daily because frankly, i love your writing. a few comments...

it was very helpful to see you lay out techniques, motives, etc. of batterers b/c i recognized people in my own life who are like that, and i had always blamed myself and not recognized that they were just sick.

secondly, i'm sorry to say i noticed some of my own past habits about making people wrong consistently and never being pleased with their efforts or acknowledging their needs. and i recognized similar traits in good friends of mine who are good people. it's strange how verbally/emotionally you can be abusive and not even realize it, or think that it's completely normal because in your head, you really do have grievances that sometimes have nothing to do with the person you've placed all your expectations on, except neither of you know that.

anyhow, thanks for the brilliant insight. i wish i could have seen the de-published exchange :).

Elizabeth

Hi Robert and readers;

Like your reader Josie who posted earlier, I wish I had been able to read the exchange to which you refer. I have some considerable experience with being on the receiving end of verbal and even physical abuse, and recognize the ''symptoms'' you mention. But I feel it is important to stress that when we come from an abusive environment, no matter which end of that victim-abuser equation we fulfilled, we have been ''trained,'' so to speak, to act both as the abused and the abuser. The role of the ''other'' - that of the abuser in my case - can lie latent for years and then be activated when you least expect it. It came as a huge shock to me to witness myself being abusive in some of the ways you mention with a close friend a few years ago. These previously uncharacteristic behaviours burst forth out of ''nowhere.'' It was as if, having been on the receiving end of so much of this stuff growing up, I ''needed'' somehow to flip the relationship dynamics over and experience the other half of the equation in order to truly understand what had happened to me early in my life. The fellow in question was very understanding and helped me to realize what I was doing. I can't express in words how much of a shock it was to me to have to recognize and accept that this was indeed what was going on. After many months of processing the events in that friendship, I finally experienced it as very liberating. It was my own ''descent of Inanna'' process. I got to see close up and personal the mechanics of what had happened in my early environment and how the victim often becomes the abuser. It just took this one incidence, which was over the top, although afterwards when I became brutally honest with myself I recognized occasional ''bouts'' of this had occurred throughout my life. This is not very well expressed, but I am trying to make an important point here. Things and people are not all black and white, all good and bad - at least not until you get profoundly honest about it. Take care one and all.

M

Hi Robert, I saw part one of the abusive messages yesterday, and I immediately felt sick. As someone who grew up with a bullying father, I am well versed in such tactics and recognise the traits you describe above with great familiarity. Unfortunately, there are many of these characters out there, and we come across them in our daily lives in the work place, as house mates, friends of friends, social groups and clubs, family members etc. A problem I have found is when I must address a grievance with a bullying person (which I tend to avoid if possible). No matter how kind and sensitively one addresses the issue, they tend to fly into defensive bullying mode without hesitation. I wonder what you suggest for times when we have to approach bullies with a grievance?

Jennifer

I wonder why the bullies do it? Does it make them feel warm and good inside to put everyone down and be The Superior One?

Paula

Hello Robert, knowing you are a democrat, what do you think of president Obama wanting to continue war in Afgan and sending 30,000 soldiers?

WarriorLady

:: Investing in Troll Repellent spray ::

You go, Robert! This Libra supports your balancing of bully behaviors.

It's time to even the playing field, bullies. No one should feel intimidated or less than anyone else.

WarriorLady

P.S. Cat Stevens and I share a neptune-ascendant conjunction :).

Valerie

Just can't resist commenting. Elizabeth, I agree with you. And Robert, excellent post, I wish I had known these things years ago. To anyone just learning about how to deal, battering is totally insidious, and unrecognizable at first. The bullies are really sneaky, especially when it comes to that making up part. They make you wonder if you are crazy. I thought I was crazy. I've been free for a long time now and of course, feel much better in so many ways. But I often wonder if now I am unable or unwilling to get my feet wet again, the damage was permanent. I haven't had a relationship in twelve years. Maybe I'm still in the healing process, who knows.

To Jennifer: you are probably right. It's a power trip and they really get off on it. Other than that, well, think of the Cowardly Lion. They are really insecure and afraid inside. My ex-husband was.

Robert: thanks for a great post, and I hope it helps a lot of folks. :)

cherish

Paula@1:00pm, you're Off Topic. Just be patient, that thread will come around.

cherish

Robert, this is great and so needed. Can I post the URL to this on my Facebook wall?

Laura

Dear Robert,

Thank you for once again sharing your practical wisdom with us.

Unfortunately, the teacher is often times the target of the unconscious projections of the student. Something in this troll was seeking expression and release.

You have handled this event with grace and patience. An example that I (and others) surely appreciate!

Blessing to you!
Laura

Alii

Dear Robert, thank you so much for posting this excellent piece, and such right timing! I had a very verbally and emotionally abusive but now ex-boss that I am currently fighting to get the unemployment benefits, since I had to quit due to her abuse finally making me sick. Phone hearing this Friday continues to stress me out. After 16 months the daily abuse made me a nervous wreck, and I was already a nervous Gemini/Scorpio Rising/Sag moon. I knew I was too sensitive to stay at the job, but needed the job like so many, pushed myself to keep at it until my body said 'enough!' Now I just pray I can make my case to the judge. And to Warrior Lady, I understand completely! All I want to do is hide since the job just exhausted me, too much damage. I just hope I learned the message and never let someone else to that to me again!

Sean in Australia

Don't feed the troll. I have heard that one before, and it is valuable. I am not sure it is always the best response to trollish behaviour, but then again there are likely to be few absolutes in this world. It comes down to being independent enough to let others have their rants. Cheers!

Marie

I always thought so too Sean but only recently found that having turned a blind eye or the other cheek, if you like, to one or two....it doesn't just end there and can be held in for literally years when the final rant will come that will put an end to any possible further good relation. All the same, probably best to stand your ground and definitly not let them fill you with their own sense of doubt....
xm

Robert

Hi all - I knew this would generate comments! I'm composing a follow up article on what questions we can ask ourselves in certain circumstances to see how much we're participating in the behavior, and when it's just a jerk intruding on our time. That will answer at least some of the questions here, and offer a little more on the global problem of how to deal with nasty people. So these answers will be relatively short.

Hi kachina - A lot of it stems from insecurity and a need to control. Those ego traps are often unconscious of a lot. Debunkers are by definition negative and reactive. How much we allow "free thinking" and how much they do not is a good marker of measurement. As to praying they get it together, "you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink" springs to mind.

Hi Susannah - Sometimes. Very good way to control that they have "the last word," though in my experience it's never the "last word" unless you never see or speak to each other again. Sometimes it's good we have the last word, sometimes they should have the last word. It all depends on what that "last word" purports to address. In any case, accusing someone of needing to have the last word is very controlling and usually does not help.

Hi Josie - The lower ego is always "sick," in that it is dis-eased. How we can evaluate our own habits, responses, and patterns that set up these dramas will be in another article.

Hi Elizabeth - I chose not to re-post it because it's not an energy I like. I also came from a verbally abusive environment, but I learned to be and speak differently. Once we know better, nothing can fool us again if we choose to keep our eyes and hearts open to our part in the dance. The moment of realization can be the point of absolute renunciation of perpetuating that pattern in any way, shape, or form. We may have once been abuser/abused, but we can end that in a New York minute through openhearted mindfulness.

Hi M - That gut feeling that came up is one of the reasons I chose to de-publish all of it after he began to escalate. No point in perpetuating something that smells like dung. Approaching bullies is best done with detachment, pure objectivity to the degree you can stay focused on facts, and mindfulness that you are dealing with a very transitory experience with a being who may or may not get it. And of course, knowing boundaries and limits helps us know when it's time to leave.

Hi Jennifer - Several ego malfunctions occuring. Any combo of any degree of fear, vanity, desire, and need for strong feelings can bring it forth. Once they form a habit it feels natural to them. Ego definitely needs to feed its own sense of entitlement since that's why it's there in the first place. Bullies are grasping for control, which can never be fully satisfied.

Hi Paula - Definitely off topic, except for the scale of abusive bullying. That said, I agree with HH Dalai Lama that war is legalized murder.

Hi WarriorLady - It's tedious dealing with bullies, but since I choose to keep the public dialog going via comments, it's a hazard I'm willing to take on when it happens. I agree that intimidation is a tactic used by beings of lower awareness.

Hi Valerie - Yes, they do try to make you feel as though your point of view is inferior to theirs, your knowledge is inferior to theirs, and you should roll over and accept whatever they state without question. I'll address some of that in the coming follow up post. Just remember you've been in many relationships for many years. Those are your measuring stick, not the fact that you haven't been in a certain kind of relationship during that time. Marriage is not for the weak, selfish, lazy, or insecure.

Hi cherish - Sure. I hope it helps a lot of people. I'm sure it will annoy the bullies (not that any would come to your Facebook page...;-)

Hi Laura - Yes, well, projections do abound, don't they? He has plenty of "expression" on his own lame site. He becomes a troll by virtue of coming to another site and throwing stink bombs. I think he's trying desperately to drive traffic to his site by bad behavior. It's a common technique among young children and adolescents. That's why someone has to be an adult when confronting this type of acting out.

Hi Alii - Well, we're all in this together, so it's likely that it's happening other places than just this site. Glad this helps. A difficult moment led to an inspiration. At least something productive came out of it. And having goine through what you went through, I doubt you'll ever have to do this again, though you may have to use your ability to spot the seeds to know how and when to bail on such creatures.

Hi Sean - The problem with trolls is they are not listening, and only want to create disturbance. That is part of the definition of a troll. It's a far different energy than just rants. Everyone gets to blow off steam, hopefully in appropriate ways. That's a much different thing than spreading nasty inferences, assumptions, and accusations along with name calling and refusing to dialog in any honest way. Life's too short to deal with that!

Hi Marie - Rants are one thing, being verbally abusive is another. I agree that extreme feelings and words can be very deadening to the more refined emotions that uplift us. You hit on an important clue to knowing when someone is trying to undermine you. Doubt is corrosive, especially those who try to make you doubt your ability to find and know truth on your own terms. While we can wander into some misguided conclusions, if we keep at it we can always find that which is true for us. How can another ever really know what that is?

Doubt is actually one of the 10 "fetters" we must conquer completely on our Path of Hastened Attainment. No Master, Arhat, or Paramahansa ever was plagued by doubt, not through repression or denial, but through the clear light of consciousness that knows doubt is a form of mental slavery.

Hi all again - On that note, I continue to draw inspiration from all you and I have said here, and am working on a thoughtful follow up piece. Happy coming Solstice and New Year!

Tomer

Thanks Robert for the article and for all the rest for contributing questions, insights and depth.

I just met one bully today who used to be close months ago. Kept smiling all the way and was able to stay detached from the 'hooks'.
Observing the experimental loop felt liberating.

Loving the new moon energy!

Blessings to all

Radha Kunke

do these abusive patterns reflect in a astrological chart? if so, how?

Crystal

I call them Spiritual Vampires, but I like trolls too! I have had a few in my life. They especially love spiritually balanced people like you Robert. They only want to pull from your beautiful light because they do not have a beautiful light of their own.

Matt

I once worked for someone who would qualify as a batterer. This woman was verbally abusive toward every one of her subordinates. Just walking to work got my blood boiling - it was a revelation when I was able to leave on my own terms for a superior position. I'm deeply puzzled by such shameful and deleterious behavior... I pray for the day where abuse disappears.

Susan

Good article Robert.
As you know, I've dealt with one last year.
I believe he does this for the ego. He has to have control. He had to be right.
And it feels normal to him.
Sad.

Aum...

shanita


this so resonates with the emotional tailspin i've been trying to understand and reconcile this past year. this brings so much clarity . perfect, on this new moon, this wisdom
comes forth.
o , by the way, do you know how much you are loved?

happy new moon dear robert.

Fran

Thanks for that Robert, I like how you described that form of behaviour and how to handle it. Very Onto It!

Rae Carol

Wonderful post Robert! I had an 'event' with my ex-husband just this past Thanksgiving.

(I was so angry with myself that I had allowed myself to be 'sucked in 'but I wasn't expecting it after 20 years, I thought perhaps he had grown up a little!)

Anyway, while all of us at dinner were attempting to have a conversation on a topic, as soon as I voiced my views he verbally began pouncing on me. His tactics were as follows : He would ask me about 4 or 5 questions all at once (one following another very fast, in a high pitched voice while getting red faced). Then....before I had time to answer even one of his questions, he would give me multiple choice 'Answers' to HIS questions, thus never allowing any of my answers to be heard, which of course none of the multiple choices would have been my answer. I vowed this will never happen again.

Control tactics (manipulation) always include one or all of the following: FEAR, GUILT, and CONFUSION. If you find yourself being fearful, feeling guilty or confused in any way, no matter how 'sweet' the person is talking to you, you are being abused, by manipulation. End the conversation quickly.

kira

i can't resist adding that so often, our abusers (and those we abuse) are close friends. i had an experience with a friend who used my empathy against me to get what she wanted. it was a battle between the unconditional love for others i have tried to cultivate - and the feeling that i was being exploited: abused. it is so hard to see it because everyone can be like that at times - in spurts as someone said. over time the abuser clearly outweighed the friend. it cost me, but i was glad i followed my conscience.

enjoyed your post as always. you make me feel sane somehow. :)

Wendy

Hi Robert,
Thank you for such an insightful, intelligent article. Those trolls are hiding under a lot of communication bridges!! I consider some of them stalkers. Some people need that kind of negativity to feel alive. It is a sad and horrid way for them to live. I learned the value of good solid boundaries and when to turn around and not look back. I have cut a few people right out of my life who are like that. I am happy every time these types are out of my life!!
I was raised by two trolls. It took many years of healing from all of the damage they did.
Reading your article was/is such an important reminder to steer clear of those kinds of people.

Much gratitude,
Wendy

Susannah

Rae...Your example sounds really familiar to me. I experience the same thing on an almost-daily basis with my soon-to-be ex. Also...after I read this post - a TOTAL gift - I had two interchanges with my soon-to-be ex that followed the pattern Robert mentions. I was stunned as he made his way through his monologue. Thanks to this post, I was able to step back and watch it happening vs. not get sucked in like I usually do.

Thank you, again, Robert!!!!

alexandra

Hi Robert,

Helpful - especially at this time of year! I think its important too to remember that many batterers are themselves victims - so their plea that no one understands etc. is probably true in many senses. I think they really do believe that no one does or will ever understand but often they can't even tolerate their own sense of vulnerability. This does NOT justify their behaviour nor am I mentioning this because I think that one should tolerate it. But, I think it can help to remember that underneath that bully exterior (what I call toddler behaviour - seeing problems in terms of black and white, unable to appreciate the differences between people's persectives or listen to another persons' feelings, unable to set limits or control their anger or rage) is an incredibly poor sense of self. I think understanding this can help in finding your own equanamity and compassion, and not get "sucked in".

Thanks again for all your great posts R.

Morvah

Dear Robert, Tip of spear brought to bear excellently!
Shanti

alexandra

Helpful post Robert - especially this time of year. I think it is important to remember that most "batterers" have themselves been victims, and so when they say they haven't been heard, I think they really mean it. This by no means excuses their behaviour, nor am I saying that it should be tolerated, but I do think that part of breaking the cycle is also recognizing this. I say this as a therapist. Underneath the bully behaviour is a very fragile psyche - and that is what produces what I call the toddler-like behaviour (not being able to tolerate other peoples perspectives or listen to other people's feelings, seeing things in black and white, unable to self modulate their rage). I think knowing this can be empowering for people in relationships that are about victimization/abuse, as it can help to break the cycle in how the victim perceives the abuser as someone who is more powerful or right, to realize they are actually not strong at all, but deeply messed up!

Thanks again for all your great posts and have a great Xmas.

alexandra

...woops - sorry for the double post, did not see second page.

BrightStar

Very well-written description and extremely well-thought out Robert. I appreciated your description of the techniques. Defending yourself seems futile, no matter how right you are or not. Hoping that they will 'see' how abusive their behaviour is towards others/me is also futile.

My father is one of these and with a Neptune (Vir) opposition Saturn (Pis) 'Grand Crossed' with Sun (Sag) opposition Chiron (Gem), he feels he is justified, spiritual and of course, seems unwilling to acknowledge his own abusive flaws. Here is a person who doesn't apologize and declares others too sensitive. A master of justification and manipulative of others' reasoning.

With his Chiron exactly conj my Gemini Sun (which is sq my Pis Sat/Chi), I always had hope that I could shine a light on his abuse so he could rectify it, or at least attempt to be less hurtful. No dice. The techniques described above fit perfectly...and you know these from your own personal experience. {{Robert}}

Finally, I am accepting that the abusive cycle will only stop when I detach and add even more distance than I already practice. When handling this issue with a parent, I find the balance more difficult than with a friend or past love. The history with family is deep...and very disappointing in many ways. Thank you again for such eloquence in your thoughts...it helped me stay on track today!

BrightStar

PS- My father has Pluto (Leo) conj his ASC....the lovely 'my way or the highway' aspect...closely opposed by Jupiter in the 7th. There has been no breaking through to this person....sadly.

BrightStar

PPS- The only point I have never bought is that the abuser has low self-esteem. I believe it is the opposite...over-inflated EGO. They love themselves and you should too!! (wink)

Sagars

Hi Robert- The "troll" unintentionally succeeded in doing one thing atleast: uniting us all for a pre-new year gathering. Wishing him a "legitimate suffering" as Carl Jung uses the term and then a "Welcome Back!" after he has purified himself.

Hi Elizabeth- Dedicating a Pink Floyd song for your thoughts: "Shine on you crazy diamond!" "Profoundly honest", I sometimes use the term "brutally honest". :)

AnneTexas

Thanks, Robert. I missed the troll's posts, but I wonder after reading your article what on earth attracted him here to begin with?

caliban

This is timely for me, in more than the wandering troll. Look forward to the followup on this. Rae Carol I like the last comment about self monitoring and awareness. If only it were so easy. I've been questioning for awhile why I put myself in the position and don't get out or turn it around sooner.

Maya Earth Coffee

Hola Roberto,

We just secured 300K to provide domestic violence and sexual assault services to tribal members in the Inland NW. The battering techniques that you articulated are very thourough and could be a great asset to our advocates working with American Indian victims and survivors. Would you give me "permiso" to copy the text and send it our the Healing Spirits Program Coordinator. It has the potential to be circulated wide and far within Indian country.

I totally agree with Sagars that the "troll" was successful in generating a universal response from your readers to an issue that has most likely touched most of our lives; and I am positive that he did not succeed in battering you.

Once again, muchas gracias for blessing us with your wisdom.

Paz

Valerie

Wow, this stream just goes on forever! Thank you for that clarification, yes it is true there are many kinds of relationships. Even while living alone, I do have many fine friends. I'm grateful for that. Just a little stuck in the old Hollywood happily ever after wishful thinking. Looking forward to your next post... Namaste :)

Star

Perfectly said, Robert. I had an experience like this over the summer. It was a good lesson in remaining emotionally detached, keeping my boundaries, and being in my integrity no matter what they threw at me. A true practice of compassion in action, indeed. Thank you so very much for posting this!

Patricia

What a synchronicity - bingo!

I just had yesterday a similar experience at work with an "abusive troll". I managed to keep my cool, but was wondering this morning how I should proceed or even react.

Then bingo! I read Robert's article and everybody's comments and now I know I should really NOT react but distance myself and keep inside my own circle of higher level energy.

Thanks all for the great insight. There might have been something in the starts this week!!

Gama Yun

God bless you for this article, thank you! You obviously hit a very common experiential theme, judging from responses here--and a timely theme, too, given how many people are dreading another dysfunctional family holiday season.

It's sad that so many people have to deal with these ego-driven distortionists. But by laying out what's happening, as you have, this higher level of truth forces everyone to a higher 'ground level' and more honest acknowledgment of what's happening. Those who aren't interested in honesty or integrity in their relationships are rapidly exposed as a consequence.

Donna L. Faber

When abuse comes wearing the disguise of love, it can be very confusing. When we invest too much of ourselves in the reflection of another, for whatever reason, and however unconsciously, it is even harder to disengage. But no matter how it is justified, ruminated, or otherwise wrapped up in spiritual fancy, no matter how you slice it, it's about control.

If we're willing to give up our control, our power, there is always some tripped out sonuva you-know-what out there just waiting to suck up that energy on our behalf.

Even if they have to brutalize us to do it.

D~

Juju

Great article, thanks. I have worked in many companies where at least one person was an unabashed abuser who was never managed by their manager. Left to their own devices, they can destroy an otherwise functional organization single-handedly. I found a very helpful book called "Working With You Is Killing Me" that lays out various strategies for addressing problematic behavior. However, the advice for dealing with these abusers was exactly as Robert states - you can't ever win, you have to get out. So, if you work in a situation where the abuser's manager or HR will not address the issue, focus your efforts on finding a new job and in the interim, don't try to win with the abuser. That's the energy surge they love - the battle, the struggle, the wrestling. That's the energy they feed off of, so starve them and they won't necessarily go away but you might be left with enough energy to go find a new job.

Alternately, I have sometimes prayed that the abuser move on to a position that would be more suitable to them, that would enable them to operate at a higher vibrational rate and in a few cases, that's worked too. Praying that something GOOD take them out of your life forever can be empowering and positive fo you - while you still go look for a new job. Unfortunately, there are a lot of trolls in the world and this planetary energy is drawing them out, challenging them to evolve and as they resist, they become increasingly cranky, hostile, disoriented and vengeful. Have mercy but don't engage. Best of luck my friends.

ToombsCat


Yes, I've read the book you speak of. It is very true.
I really like how you ( Juju ) and Robert have summed it up.
Just get out, don't engage and starve them to death, so to speak.
Most importantly protect yourself in all ways as you cut ties
while you starve them. Walk away free and clear.
Abusers fancy themselves very self righteous, courageous and
some, believe it or not, think themselves spiritual.
Rational or moral arguements are of no avail what so ever when
thier entire behavioral issues are at the core amoral. Best
to let karma, planetary energies and evolution do the rest
while you get on with your own.

" That's the energy surge they love - the battle, the struggle,
the wrestling. That's the energy they feed off of, so starve them..."

"Unfortunately, there are a lot of trolls in the world and this planetary
energy is drawing them out, challenging them to evolve and as they resist,
they become increasingly cranky, hostile, disoriented and vengeful."

Isha

Thank You very much for the shared Insights Robert.
I really appreciate you breaking it down on abuse situations that have become so normal and everyday. I love the "don't feed the troll." part. I work with a person who applies these techniques and its a huge help to discern where our dynamics are playing out and how I can avoid getting cought up in collective drama.

AMC

Im glad you're able to control/remove the trolls. I feel what you post on this site is extremely important, as are the responses. I dont like anything getting in the way of my education! Important stuff going on here..I dont feel this is a site for debates.

Melody Dawn

Yes Robert,

I too am glad you were able to BAN the trolls though I suspect theres a few more to be had vieled and lurking on here ... but the great guy that you are .. you not only have a great eye ;) but also great wisdom. Thank you very much for all your assistance. ;)

Cheers
Melody Dawn

Richard

Robert
How timely, Chris & I (in Houston)have been battered for months by two low class next door neighbors who want to steal our home from us. Looonngg story. Deputy now tells us that he is convinced by the neighbor wife's behavior (the one who sets the agenda and pushes her husband) that this is going to end in violence and we should prepare (his words). I need to sign up for another reading. We would appreciate everyone's prayers and good thoughts. Please! Best wishes and rest & peace to all during this time that should be all of those things for all of us.
Richard

Sherry

thank you so very much for your commentary on battering; I was married to a man who perfectly fits your profile of "troll".

I'll add that trolls show very little individual identity; it is as though they are stock characters to cast into a TV script; very little of what they say or do reflects unique personality.

I like how what you write is very easy to understand; there is no mistaking troll behavior after reading what you've written here.

Thanks once again for the warning signs of when to leave the scene.

Amy Kritz

Hello, Robert. That was the best, most succinct delineation of abusive psychodynamics I've ever seen. It took me so many years to learn it was a waste of time and energy to engage with such people. The difficulties I have now are if I encounter them in professional or quasi-professional areas, from which it's not always so easy to withdraw.

With all good wishes, Amy

BritLitChik

Wow - haven't been able to get on in a few days, and missed a "big 'un" as they say....

Just some thoughts about those who expressed the abusiveness "coming out of nowhere" theory...my experience has been that once you allow yourself to achieve the 20/20 hindsight, you will see that the behaviors were there, bubbling at the surface, all the time. Some of these abusers are better than others at keeping a lid on themselves and have multiple reasons for that being the case. Most of the time, at least in my experience, it's been because they are afraid of what others might think of them. When you are an abuser and have these inherent passive/aggressive personality issues, you want the outside world to agree with you in an effort to prove your case against the person to whom the abuse is directed. But the behavior is there, like a BabyRuth bar in the pool.

The upside to these folks (and yes, there is an upside) is that when the abused finally can't take it anymore the break away is final and complete. The abused is afforded an opportunity to carry away a last shred of self-dignity. That last thread is a strong one, and can be used as a foundation for the building of a new, much improved, strong and resilient self - one that recognizes and no longer tolerates unproductive, mean-spirited and/or bullying behavior.

Having been the recipient of mental abuse in my own past, I like to think that what I have carried away with me is hope that the abuser(s) will figure it out and find a means of contributing to our world instead of taking from it or, if they can't or refuse to figure it out, wish them well in their self-imposed nonjoyful, lonely and frustrating existence because really, that's all they have.

Thank you, Robert, for your explanation, too. I've seen websites that just pull people's comments out without explanation when said comments are still a means of communicating and teaching those who are seeking. You are indeed a full professor guiding us all through light and love as well as the stars under which we find ourselves.

May you all have a blessed holiday season.

Nett

Hi Robert
Spot on with deleting the trolls. Ignoring or responding escalates the abuse which drives away interested posters. My husband managed forum and blog comments for several online newspaper sites before retiring and dealt with this nonsense all the time. Trolls have a twisted notion of free speech - they can say anything and you have to take it. He would humorously quip "you have the right to remain silent...". Watch for the multiple identity trolls - new name and email but the same pattern of abuse. Be Well

Beth in SoCal

Very timely Robert. I am publishing an e-book on unhealthy narcissism after three years of research and a history of family abuse rooted in unhealthy narcissism. The title:It Has A Name: How to Keep Control Freaks & Other Unhealthy Narcissists from Ruining Your Life. Many people think, like i did, that alcoholism, passive-aggression, and bullying are the problem. They are symptomatic of a deeper underlying personality disorder or pattern behavior. I am writing a follow-up book called, the Well of Being, about life after we free ourself from the grasp of the narcissist. You'll find these on Scribd in annotated form, and in March the entire book. Many of these comments are right on target. Excellent example, Rae Carol!

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