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Comments

Anne Texas

Thanks, Robert. I'll take your answer as definitive.

Veronica Norman

Nicely stated Robert! I prosper from your thoroughness with the details, but I smile at the "simplified" summation of today's post. Thanks muchly!

Elizabeth

Hi Robert; I've been studying both Western and Vedic astrology for years and share your view that ''In my experience, while Vedic Astrology is remarkably accurate (and very deterministic!) in terms of life phases using Periods, Sub-Periods, and Sub-sub Periods, in most of its forms it is not as accurate or useful as Western Astrology in showing how to master the evolution of personality into Spiritual Adulthood.'' Oddly enough, given its ancient and highly spiritual origins, I find Jyotish or Vedic astrology mostly useful on a practical level, eg.,to warn someone of a pending accident, etc. I have personally made amazingly accurate predictions for people based on their Jyotish charts, and quite detailed at that. But while this can be fun and validating, it is not the real purpose of astrology, which to me is what you are describing. I find Western astrology more satisfying in terms of understanding the individual's evolutionary requirements and psychological patterns. However, oddly, while I find the Tropical signs work better descriptively (I feel much more like a Virgo Ascendant than a Leo, for example), when it comes to the planetary rulerships of the houses of the chart, Jyotish seems to work better, again, in a very practical way. So I look at both, eg., Mercury rules the 1st and 10th houses in the Tropical version of my chart and the 2nd and 11th houses in the Jyotish version. Invariably though, I find major transits to my natal Mercury really do affect the affairs of the Jyotish houses involved more than they do the affairs of the
Tropical houses involved. Whether I'm checking the planetary period (used in Jyotish), transits or progressions, I seem to get better ''predictive'' value, or a better sense of the areas of life affected, from looking at the rulership of, say Venus, in the Vedic version of the chart. The late Richard Houck wrote in one of his books that he tended to look at it this way, bouncing back and forth between the two systems. So, again, I have Leo rising in Jyotish, but I seem more like a Virgo rising in terms of personality, appearance, demeanor, etc. However a transit by Pluto over my natal Sun years ago produced major events associated with the Sun being my chart ruler more obviously than if the Sun ruled my 12th house, again validating the Jyotish rulerships. I also find that very frequently the timing of the effects of transits can coincide more closely with the Jyotish position, i.e., using the progresson of the (Lahiri) Ayanmsa since the individual's birth. Thus I often note the effects of transits arrive somewhat earlier than would be predicted using the the Tropical placement by degree. Others have noted this too, I believe. Food for thought!

yzse

Elizabeth, the same goes for me :)
But in all those years I learned to look the both ways and then just wait to see what system will win in that particular time frame. It can be amusing, but not very precise, frustrating... :)
The only thing I can use as an explanation is that I still don't know enough... so the learning journey goes on :)

Popplagid

I see the Zodiac as a continuum. However, I found interesting that people born by 10-20 July have deep emotional personality, much more than those born around 1 July or those born around 1 August. Or maybe it's just my delusion.

caliban

Gosh Robert, way to spin my astro pizza. Dwarfed by dust clouds, I'm left with core essence, path, toolbox, and a little know how. Hi ho, hi ho, it's off to work I go. In all due respect to the honorable Dr Seuss, oh the places I'll go.

Am curious (oh oh) about what Merc Rx at my solar year start will reveal.

Jamie Funk

This topic seems to be in our consciousness at the moment Robert, I just wrote something yesterday about this very subject. I do use the tropical zodiac, but only as a mathematical or astronomical tool, not for any interpretive function. The zodiac we use was only ever meant to be an an ecliptic coordinate system. We always used to look at the planets against the backrop of the stars, and indiginous cultures around the world still do.

The transference of the meaning of the stars onto the zodiac signs, cemented by Pteolemy really was a mistake, there is no relationship between Sun signs and the cosmos. Precession of the constellations is just one problem. The fundamental problem is that these 30 degree divisions have been given astrological meaning, where there was never any in the first place. Our motto as astrologers is supposed to be "as above, so below". There are no zodiac signs up there behind the planets, just stars.

Zodiac Signs, Fixed Stars and Precession http://funkastrology.co.uk/?p=6058

Frances

Hi Robert
Can you say a little more about this - what pattern in the cosmos are the birthdates following?
Frances

caliban

ran a fixed star chart. 12 meridians/12 houses. Planet placements in meridians line up with house system. But ah the constellation placements . . . I've taken too much guff for being a Virgo to be a Leo. First mythology I hit on the the fixeds was about a virgin being tied to a rock to feed a big whale. Another one in the volcano. She resurrects as usual, but in a Cinderella kind of way, but then I have not yet read the mythology on that daughter of hers. I just don't think it was wise to tie her to that rock. But alas it is only a myth, right? And they always change depending on the day.

Predictions are beyond me at this point, but as I understand planetary energies better, I do see how certain times could facilitate better flow for certain activities. And I shall consider those far out stars in my wanderings.

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