The Mayan Calendar, 2012, What’s To Come and Hope For The Future

by Robert Wilkinson

A while ago, in a post on Einstein, the comment stream opened into a detailed discussion of the true Mayan calendar and the one purported to declare 2012 the “end of time.” What follows is a reprise of that important post, since 2012 and the Mayan Calendar are important indicators of what is, and what is to come.

In response to what I posted, the commenter offered this gem from Einstein: “The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once.” Then they inquired about July 25, 2006, where they said “I hear that it is significant on the ancient Mayans' calendar as ‘a day out of time’ or something like that.”

That got me to thinking and researching, and this is what I came up with. What is rumored to be “the Mayan Calendar” isn’t the whole story. As I wrote:

This is an important subject about two different "Mayan" calendars, the actual Mayan time system and Jose Arguelles' Dreamspell Mayan Calendar system. From one source:

"To much of the world a calendar system invented by José and Lloydine Argüelles in the early nineties: The Dreamspell/Thirteen Moon Calendar has come to be known as “the Mayan Calendar”. Despite the fact that this is a calendar system that has never been used by the Maya. In the words of Adam Rubel of Saq Be, an organization reflecting indigenous and especially Mayan views: “Regarding the dreamspell and work of Arguelles: It has been made clear, I think everybody here understands, the need to distinguish this system from any relation to the Mayan tradition. […] This is the wish of the elders, that the confusion and misrepresentation cease.” Despite this wish of the Mayan elders, many of its protagonists have however been falsely presenting it as Mayan.. Mostly this is because of a lack of knowledge about the true Mayan calendar, but also because those teaching the Dreamspell calendar do not provide adequate information about the origin of this and why it was invented.

The structure of the calendar system known as the Thirteen Moon calendar/Dreamspell is basically as follows: It proposes that we use a calendar of Thirteen different Moons of 28 days – presented as the feminine cycle – to which a “day out of time” on July 25 is added to account for the 365 days of a solar year (13 x 28 +1 = 365 days). Linked to this is a count of the 20 glyphs and 13 numbers that have been borrowed from the Sacred Mayan Calendar of 260 days. Yet, in the Dreamspell calendar the symbols are associated to the days in an entirely different way compared to in the true calendar meaning that when people are given their purported Mayan tzolkin day of birth in this system, called the “Galactic Signature”, this is invariably different from the Sacred Calendar symbols that the Maya have been and are using for that particular day. Thousands have been misled into thinking that this is their true Mayan day-sign.

How Mayan is then this system? Except for the signs and symbols used in the tzolkin count (260-day count) it is not Mayan at all. To begin with the ancient Maya followed a moon cycle alternating between 29 and 30 days, as did many other peoples, creating a mean of 29.5 days. This is consistent with the female cycle. Yet, many women have, partly because of the perturbations of their cycles due to the artificial lights and artificial hormones present everywhere in the modern world, come to believe that a “normal” period is 28 days. This idea is really a construct of patriarchal medicine that for ages has been frightened by what it has perceived as a magical link between the woman and the full moon cycle of about 29.5 days. Still today many women, as well as also many men, have special feelings linked to their hormones on days of full moon. The Thirteen Moon calendar thus ignores the female natural cycle and seeks to replace it with a mathematical construct of 28 days, that does not correspond to any natural cycle.

In this Thirteen Moon Calendar the day July 26 has been chosen as a “New Year’s day” and you sometimes hear it being called “the Mayan New Year”. In reality this fixed first day of the so-called Thirteen Moon calendar reflects the very opposite of the Mayan Calendar system. Fixing it on this date was really what sealed the end of the traditional Mayan calendar in the Yucatan. In ancient times, and among the living Quiché-Maya still, the Mayan calendar had no fixed “New Year’s date” that could now be directly translated into a Gregorian such. This distinction of the traditional Mayan calendar of not having a fixed new year’s date is of very great importance today. It means that unlike most other calendars of the world the prophetic Mayan calendar is not subordinated to mechanical time or astronomical cycles. The Thirteen Moon calendar, in contrast is based on the physical year."

After a response, I offered this:

I was turned on to Dreamspell as a "game" many years ago, and it seemed very abstruse at the time. I do not know if the "true" Mayan calendar singles out 2012 as special, but there are other prophesies that declare 2012 as the end of something. Of course, I take ALL of them with a grain of salt, since the whole business is somewhat like a game of telephone, where rumors become magnified with each re-telling of the garbled message.

All forms of time-telling eventually hit an end point. Not time itself, since that's merely the medium by which we measure our experiences in space. But the way we note time must hit an end at some point, unless it's a universal calendar.

I do believe that 2012 is a very important year, due to astrological aspects I've written about that are in play. I do know we have drastic environmental upheaval coming in our future, due to the destabilization of the Earth, as has been reported in this story and others. I expect widespread upheaval given what's been set into motion already. And there are other possibilities, from discovering things we've never known before that will change our view of history to actual contact with forms of higher intelligences.

I know that after 2020-2025, the future of humanity is very, very bright. There will be a greater community consciousness than we've known in many millennia and a radically changed view of the world, freed of the current delusions presently destroying civilization as we've known it.

Then an old friend of mine checked in who has extensive knowledge of Central American civilization, culture, and history, offering us valuable and accurate information about this most important portent of our times:

Monday July 17, 2006 of the Gregorian calendar corresponds to WAXAKIB' BATZ = 8 Batz, which according to Mayan Aj K'ij (time keepers) is the Mayan new year, that starts the Tzolkin count for a new 9 month period. According to our Mayan friend and Tzolkin practitioner, Juan, this day represents the celebration of the creation of the world, as well as the creation of human life through the human cycle of fecundation.

I totally concur with Robert regarding the confusion regarding the July 26 date. The true tzolkin date for the "Mayan New Year" WWAXAKIB' BATZ, as Juan reminds us, never corresponds to a constant Gregorian date. It is always changing within the greater cycles of the Mayan systems of computing time.

Regarding the 2012 date, according to some Mayan scholars, December 21st, 2012 A.D. corresponds to the end of the Mayan Long Count (13-baktun cycle) calendar. Juan says that this date portends environmental changes on the earth, similiar to the sinking of Atlantis. It would be interesting to talk with other Mayan Aj K'ij to get their point of view.

I believe that 2012 is a very important point in what we call “time.” I believe that this is the leading edge of how we define what we are experiencing, and what we are about to experience, individually and collectively. This brings us back to the eternal question: “If not now, when? If not here, where?”

ADDENDUM: - December 2007

Since what's going on astrologically is of major relevance to any thorough discussion regarding 2012, here are three articles written in October 2007 that go into considerable detail about the squares and oppositions coming in the next few years. They offer an in-depth look at major factors everyone will face the next the next 2000 days.

Explaining the Squares and Oppositions of 2009-2010-2011-2012-2013 Pt.1 - Saturn in Virgo and Libra Opposition Uranus in Pisces and Aries

Explaining the Squares and Oppositions of 2009-2010-2011-2012-2013 Pt.2 - Saturn in Libra Square Pluto in Capricorn

Explaining the Squares and Oppositions of 2009-2010-2011-2012-2013 Pt.3 - Uranus in Aries Square Pluto in Capricorn

© Copyright 2007 Robert Wilkinson

Comments

[christine]

I have had a recurring dream for about 20 years - a simple image of a tree-coring machine removing trees from a country road of my childhood. Recently I saw that exact image for the first time, on a visit back to my childhood home where my aging grandparents still live.

I also live now in a house with white kitchen counters that previously I'd had a recurring dream about. I had considered that maybe I'd reached the end of my life, since I didn't have any recurring dreams of a future beyond this point. However, I think this relates to the whole concept of "time" you speak about, as if we are all being prepared for some moment, as if our lives are all about reaching a point in time.

I like your use of the word - pioneering - in a recent post. Given that our ancestors were land pioneers, my own great-grandparents were sodbusters on the prairie, it's an interesting concept that pioneering now has a new definition. It's ironic too that emotional or spiritual pioneering is happening at a time when, those who can afford it, are viewing real estate as an important aquisition.

I opened a fortune cookie recently that said "Study metaphysics - you will find much to appreciate". I'm considering that too.

[Robert]

Hi christine - Well, I always encourage everyone to study metaphysics, as it can open doors of perception and understanding very quickly and help your personality to integrate.

Some dreams are symbolic, some are prophetic, some have elements of both and more. Maybe this is you recognizing "you can't go home again," thus freeing you to embrace larger adventures in the NOW on the basis of the ancestral strength and passage of the old ways. If you have time, you may want to take a tape recorder and get one or both grandparents to tell stories of when they were young and how things were different. I did that with my grandparents when they were still here and no one in the family regrets the time I put in.

Maybe that you haven't had other recurring dreams, you have finally caught up with your future, and you can now make your dream rather than wait for it to show up. Glad the word "pioneering" resonates with you as a relevant metaphor. The trick to real estate is to make sure it's true for you, will sustain you as you sustain it, and it's proximate to a potential community.

The future is in building community in ways both old and new, since as it is we're so fragmented that life on Earth has become an unnecessarily huge struggle for survival rather than an adventure in conscious awareness and creativity within a natural community.

[christine]

Thank you Robert for such a thoughtful response. I like the idea that we can catch up with our future, and waiting for things to come around.... uh, yeah, I would do that over differently.

Fortunately, both my grandparents have been telling us about their lives over many years... and while I realize that's not as magic as having it on tape, they both seemed to get so self conscious around a tape recorder... well it just didn't work very well.

Your last sentence is very profound.

[sparkyroots]

I was introduced Jan 2004 as a skeptic, to the new 13 moon calendar as an alternative way of measuring time. The way it was sold to me was as having equally measured months- which indeed has revolutionized my finances (the purveyors are well into denouncing the gregorian catholic model of the world & wage-slavery to which I subscribe) but also, and most importantly to me, it opened up the waves of synchronicity I experience in my life, until then I merely noted them, now I have great understanding of and use what I may call "time magic" as my entire life synchronicity & all has just opened up for me since observing it. I havent even gone in depth to the dreamspell yet, as just following the daily tzolkin is powerful enough. Christianity works for some people, this works for me- astoundingly! I'd go so far to say I found my THING, but it's not for everybody.

I find your analysis interesting, especially the historical stuff and I concede there are always purists of every paradigm, however, I believe the Arguilles crew have merely evolved something useful & judging by the profound effect on opening up my life, and dare I say, telepathy (a very long & complex story) that they definitley are onto something. However, your post has prompted me to look further into the 'older' terms etc.. as I have met people who are fluent in that too. The new seems to lead to an interest in the original versions, so perhaps what the Arguilles crew are doing ain't so bad?

As for the end of.. I understand it to mean that one of the largest time-loops collapses in 2012, and have always had this feeling of it coming- thus the calendar has answered many of my unanswered questions & freed me up from feeling like a nutter! My prophesy for 2012 is of great change for the intelligent monkeys conciousness then, but that the tipping point of MOST people becoming aware of this will not occur until 2013, and until then, the critics will have a great time saying it's all a load of rubbish, and as we know not which form any transformation will take, it will mostly be down to the intellectual arguers to speculate. A truly transforming transformation will probably remain unnoticed by your ordinary folk anyway, so does any of it really matter anyway except to those, like me who are profoundly touched by it.

Indeed, when I get into it deeply (not even to the level of the dreamspell book) I find it has triggered varied and highly intuitive states of mind in me- to the point of becoming very psychic or any of the other terms one may give to this phenomena. I stay away from this mostly, as I do not often have the personal support I need to get the most out of these states, yet this is a reality for me- one that this potent mind-tool has tought me of.

[Robert]

Hi sparkyroots - Glad you found a time system that is helpful for you to make sense of things and assist you to find and live your higher purpose. I agree that most people want dramatic change to happen in ways they can recognize, while true global changes often take longer to occur. However, I do see so many major environmental, social, economic, and philosophical changes coming at us in the near future that it will be impossible for the mass to deny that global change is happening.

One of the qualities of the larger emerging collective field is a heightened sense of intuition, as well as psychic awareness. The trick is to know the difference between the two, since the former (in its true state) is always reliable, whereas the latter is seldom accurate beyond very narrow limits. In any case, it is we who interpret the subtle signals accurately or inaccurately, and so there's always hope that through disciplines of self-realization we can transcend the limitations of the 5 senses and the mind and come to true "straight knowledge" as the Agni Yoga material puts it.

[Charmie]

Hi Robert.

Thanks, first of all, for your kick ass astrology insight. I love it.

Secondly, I encourage you to go to www.ushai.com and learn about Medicine Man/Wisdom Keeper Don Alberto Taxo. I've interviewed him many times on my radio show and attended many of his lectures. He is here fulfilling a 500 year prophecy that the Eagle Will Fly with The Condor. Much of their prophecy is based on astrology, but also on the wisdom of the grandmothers and grandfathers who trained him in the old ways.

Anyway, his people live in the Andes Mountians and are pre-Incan Mayans from Ecuador or however that's spelled. He's a master Iachak of the Atis (Kichwa) people from the Cotopaxi region of Ecuador. His wisdom has been passed down since before Columbus--he IS Mayan and--here's the important part--he says that our Gregorian calendar is all wrong--that the new world we're entering actually began in March 2006. He is very specific about this. I believe him, being the actual source.

Also, for Christine, Jamie Sands wrote a book called The 13 Original Clan Mothers, it will introduce you to the actual Spirits of the 13 yearly moons. It's been life changing for me.

Thanks again Robert and thanks especially for giving us all a heads up on upcoming astrological opportunities. We are a shifting and growing and learning and becoming and it's all so exciting!

love Charmie

[Robert]

Hi Charmie - Thanks for your praise of the site. When I have more time and not on the road, I'll check out the site you recommend. The ancient prophesies are all converging, pointing to a new way for the Earth and its creatures, including retarded AND enlightened humanity. March 2006 was a very important eclipse point, ushering in major changes. I wrote about it then so if you're interested in possible effects, go to the March archives index and check out what I wrote about those eclipses. And of course, you're welcome for the heads up, since we all can use these timing tools to move into our power, light, love and wisdom in the exciting (and unstable!) times ahead.

[Charmie]

Oh, thank you so much for the laugh today Robert. I really needed it.

As a mixed blood retarded/enlightened human, I'm grateful for the convergance of these prophecies. All the Native folks and wise women I talk to confirm what you're saying, not to mention the obvious effects in my personal life and the lives of those around me. The Hope elders sent out a message last summer saying we are in a fast flowing river. Some folks will try to claw their way out to get out of the current and this will cause them harm. Their recommendation: dont' take anything personally, do everything in ceremony and that the time of the lone wolf is over.

Sound familiar?

Safe travels and merry merry New Year!

Charmie

[Robert]

Hi Charmie - Humor is the great healer. I figured I was in tune to the same wavelength as the Native Elders in the tribes of the People, since I am one. We be the Tribe of Starwatchers, the Timetellers and Mapmakers of every tribe. "The time of the lone wolf is over." Wow. Yes. Completely and absolutely. Solitude is eternal and precious. Separateness is an illusion. Blessings and a great 2007 to you, my dear.

[Irpsit]

So, Robert, do you think a special sence of ribirth and maybe some environmental changes will happen around 2012 but not the most of predicted earth changes?
Some predicted that during that year, Earth would ascend to astral realm and the veil separing both lifted (such as information on channeled material).
I am open, I sense approaching changes, happening everywhere in everyone.
You said on a post that that kind of ascension would only happen 36000 years from now.
What is your point and concepts on this?

[Robert]

Hi Irpsit - No, I believe that environmental changes are already happening, with more to come over many decades that will change everything we've ever known. In my opinion we will NOT "ascend." That's a hollywood movie. We are here for the long haul, awakening to certain latent powers, and all are being led to recognize that separateness is an illusion, including separation from the Earth and those who we love and love us.

No one gets to leave here any time soon except those who are too brutal to continue on this fragile Earth. Those beings will be reassigned to another evolutionary system where they can play out their brutality, greed, fear, and violent tendencies without further destroying our beautiful Earth and we who are here to further the good, the true, and the beautiful. As for 36,000 years, that's about the time when I believe the last round of this chain of physical existences will be fulfilled, if we are to believe certain primary resources regarding Cosmogenesis and Anthropogenesis stemming from reputable sources of antiquity.

[Irpsit]

Robert, I had plenty of dreams since my childhood where things continued after 2012. It envolved mostly a radical restructuring of our lifes on the planet.
However, I do feel things acceleratign much their changes and my body is also going through strange changes, I will remain open to more positive scenarios.

[Robert]

Hi Irpsit - The future will be fairly great once the rebuilding begins after this dying system finally crumbles causing widespread disillusionment and suffering. People will come to realize our present exploitive separative ways in fact guarantee those unfortunate results, and humanity will again remember we do better cooperating than competing, and non-violence is infinitely preferable to the wasteful violent destructiveness of our current global economic system based on bare-knuckle competition and arms-merchant mentality. After the destruction, we will see an entirely different approach to life, wealth, supply, the Earth, and each other.

[Irpsit]

Here it goes a letter I've written about what I have felt to be 2012 early this morning:

First relax this is nothing apocaliptical nor related to social or hard scientific stuff.
This is poetic. And my personal stuff I've experienced early this morning :)

Well, this morning I wake up very soon, after hours of good sleeping and I have, while walking to work by gardens and trees, uncovered a truth about 2012 and the spiritual world
(but like all truths is a subjective one, an empirical one)

Try the following:
Wake up very soon (while society is still sleeping or waking) and go out at sunrise
walk by gardens and trees, but you can go along a street too, and notice the beauty of trees, the peace and a half-aware state from the trees and the love coming from all nature, be birds, flowers or water

Realize this is a love world. A world where some prophets have felt we could go (or start to go into) by 2012
In that year (in these years approaching it), our world is in a "collision course" with the higher natural world
One will fade into the other. Or at least I felt this early this morning.
I realize we have just to catch that beautiful lovely natural world and make it into our lives, make it into our society (and a lot can be done in our lives to load this love there)
Love one another
Thats the message
A simple secret so easy yet so hidden to find

Go for it. Do not worry about what may happen or not next decades. One thing is for sure: a lot of us have been awaken to this "love"
and thats what i've think 2012 is all about
a gradual awakening, a merging, a transformation

And what is astrology if not looking for the beauty of cycles in the sky?

[Robert]

Hi Irpsit - Thanks so much for the benevolent view of how 2012 and beyond WILL be for many. Sometimes the world ends, "not with a bang but a whimper," and since we are told by unimpeachable sources that this world has many thousands of years left in its chemical body, then we know human, animal, and plant life will not end any time soon. That would imply it's going to be primarily about the end of certain human assumptions about reality, life, and our interconnected world. We know that regardless of whatever changes whoever wherever must go through between now and December 2012, many will recognize the dawning of a new era, and about 3000 days after the entire world will look very new indeed.

2012 is merely the midpoint in the "Winter" of the 21st century. Things build to the midpoint, then release afterwards in a harvest with seeds that will sprout anew in the next "season." Though much of the present world will be radically transformed (even now as I type these words Indonesia has been wracked with yet another major earthquake!) there is no doubt that life WILL go on, and many will only be circumstantially affected in indirect ways without dramatic disasters.

We know the way we've structured things so far is unsustainable, perpetuates the illusion of separateness, and lacks fundamental compassion, and many are already suffering. It is the sources of this suffering for so many that must and will end in the next 4000 days, though of course it takes a couple of generations for the tendency to disappear altogether. We're collectively on "the path of return," and are the progenitors of new ways of being on this beautiful abundant Earth. We are the parents, grandparents, and great grandparents of a great revolution in time, and the new era will appear glorious in ways almost unimaginable to we who are living in a paradise polluted by physical, emotional, and mental toxins. And looking for beauty is a very good meditation, as it reminds the mind that "all you need is Love, Love is all you need..."

[chickie]

Your Highness,

It evokes wonder in the fact that my Aires dad passed on 7/17/04 and that I see 717 EVERYWHERE I go.

chickie

[Robert]

Hi Chickie - Been busy tcb so haven't had time to catch up on emails lately. As for your comment, numbers are a funny thing. There are repetitive patterns throughout life if we open to noting them. 12:34 has been an interesting time for me. So has 1/9, and 19. And there are many calendars in use, with many of them not describing 2012 as "the end of time."

[chickie]

Your Highness,

As far as your numbers are concerned.....12:34..1/9 and 19, each one of them add up to the number 1. I don't connect that with a calendar as much as "oneness." Aside from the fact that you are number one in my book regarding the mystical business of melding science and spirituality, however in the numerological sense, the number 1 is a leader and or one who has wholeness. May be you'll be the one who will lead a few of us who have been "paying attention" to Noah's ark while sitting on ground zero!

As far as 717, I know my dad is watching over me but now that I read this article maybe there is more to it. It could also be that it adds to number 6 which is love and responsibility. Hey, maybe I'll have a date this weekend!

Ciao ciao for now!

chickie

[Robert]

Hi Chickie - Lead? I'm following as fast as I can, just trying to keep up! As for your last sentence, may you find the perfect friend to play with as soon as possible.

[Cornelis Droog]

We learn now from the Bible that the Rapture will be May 21th 2011 AD.
Five month's* after, the Ultimate Terror: Judgment Day Oktober 21th 2011 AD
* And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man. (Revelation 9:5)

The Bible is a Book that is absolutely true and trustworthy. It is the centerpiece, the keystone of this study.
Website Time Has An End: A Biblical History of the World 11.013 BC - AD 2011 http://www.timehasanend.org/

[Robert]

Hi Cornelius - Not to be a wet blanket on your theory, but I must here remind readers that the bible was a human-made political document created to please Constantine, and many things offering more hope than doom were deliberately excluded so the church would continue to wield power over the ignorant. Then after many other changes through the centuries, that piece of work was mistranslated by the King Jim scholars to provide his majesty with a work he could use to wield power over his people. There are many other holy books in our world offering more hope to us than the bible. As for "true and trustworthy," ONLY the red letters are true and trustworthy, along with a few Proverbs. The rest is a history of a people along with some letters from disciples of truth who were not the Teacher of Love to Gods, humans, and animals. We should not confuse the Teacher with those who followed. And both Genesis and Revelations were cobbled together from other preexisting human legends and such, so they too cannot be considered as "divinely inspired."

As for "the rapture," I'm on record that it's truly a rapture to know we are Spirits in the material world, immortals with the power of Unconditional Love able to heal, comfort, and know the impermanence of all of this while honoring the truth, goodness, and beauty of our world. When it's "Armageddon," most definitely the World Teacher will not preside over a river of blood where he gloats as "sinners" are punished. The Lord of Love could never take delight in the suffering of others, regardless of how clueless or deliberately hurtful they are. The followers of churchianity need to get a grip. And just "for fun" let's suppose, just suppose, the Republican party is "the beast," since it is they and their unholy allies in government and industry who have unleashed hell on Earth for millions, creating widespread suffering, poverty, war, famine, and disease. It is they and their rich allies who profit from devastation, who will not give poor mothers and children adequate health care or food, who put their political power at the disposal of those who kill, destroy, pollute, and are indifferent to the results of their extremely destructive actions. Something someone once said about rich men and the eye of a needle comes to mind.

What if "Judgment Day" found us accounting for our support or nonsupport of those who create suffering? Personally, I don't think it'll turn out as many expect, which I'm sure will be a let down for those who think that reading the bible is the easy way out. As for teachers of love and wisdom now on Earth, if there is a "Judgment Day," I'll be feeding the poor, maybe here at the Center I'm creating or at one of Ammachi's ashrams, or doing service and practicing compassion with the Dalai Lama. His sense of humor and compassion extends even to the Chinese who are destroying his land and peoples. Now THAT'S unconditional love!

[Cornelis Droog]

Thank you for your response Robert, may God have mercy on you. Are You Ready to Meet God?

[Robert]

Hi Cornelis - God is ONLY merciful and beneficent, never vengeful or vindictive. A God of Love could never be those negative human qualities. I meet God every day, every hour, every minute, with all my body, heart, mind, and Soul. Having had a disastrous accident that resulted in going to "the other side" in 1984, then given the opportunity to come back into my body, I've already done my dress rehearsal. Dying and then being given another chance to be here prepared me for what's to come for all of us, some before 2011, some after. Just don't count on it looking like the delusion that many believe.

[Henry]

Awesome words, Robert.
My only question is for the toxic delusioners that are using God for their own benefit: are they ready to meet themselves?.

Congratulations!!!!!!!!

[Jacques]

Hi Robert,

It seems the December 21 ,2012 will be an important day for humanity to go through one of the corners ( one fourth) of the progression of equinox long circle of 20,000+ YEARS.

None of the Sumerian, Egyptian, Chinese, Indian, Mayan, .... civilizations have a history longer than 5800+ years. All civilizations have a Flood (Water)legend.

At this jucture, the earth is getting warmer. Men/women are getting infertile in the global scale.
US New-borns have a life expectancy of 120-year, just ask any insurance companies.

It needs five earths' resources to maintain just Chinese people at the current USA standard of living.

What all these signs are leading to ......, spiritually, at the geometric growth rate?

There is no reference point for Mayan 13.0.0.0.0 in any existing history, is there?

[Robert]

Hi Henry - Well, the Bible is only one of many worthy God-inspired texts, along with the Bhagavad Gita, Qur'an, Dhammapada, Light On The Path, and others. The trick with all of them is to note the true teachings of God separate from the garbled nonsense that has been layered on by the true believers that followed. In the case of the Bible, I'll stick with the red letters - the rest is commentary. And I don't need churchianity to tell me what they mean, since Saint Issa was pretty clear in his intention.

Hi Jacques - I have no doubt the Winter Solstice in any given year is relatively important, and yes, there are major turning points in Eternity Boulevard. Part of the reason we have no records extant of ancient civilizations here longer than a few thousand years is because Atlantis sank around 9564 BCE when we accelerated into a descending series of Yugas. Not many records of those thousands of years of sliding into darkness and ignorance. We've only relatively recently come out of the descending era into the ascending set of Yugas.

There were ancient floods of various sizes which wiped out much of our collective history. If the library at Alexandria hadn't been repeatedly destroyed by floods, earthquakes, and a series of barbarians who burned everything, we might know a lot more about our history and heritage. At least we have The Secret Doctrine. And I don't know of any references for the Mayan "end point," if such a thing could actually exist. Time is fluid and the means by which we measure experience, so there can be no point at which time ceases to exist. And every ending is followed by a new beginning. I'm grateful that we have a much better future than our recent and present past.

[Jacques]

Hi Robert,

The 12/21/2012 seems to reference turning a corner on the Mayan SUN disc for the great 25,620 years cycle.

In the western world, it is the rising of the eagle (Pheonix) at the Ouroboros/Leviathan 25,620 cycle.

The sun and earth on winter equinox will be directly at the position of the Cosmo snake mouth and tail conjuction point aligned with galactic center of Ophiuchus (the 13th constellation on Nostradamas').

Sun spot 11-year is starting to ascend in 2007 with peak near 2011-2012. Warmer winter, forest fires, stronger storms seem pointing to a dry, arid, barren earth in 2012 with possibility of more WARs (in economical, political, military and between male and female idealism, including all orgainized Churches/Vatican).

Are we anticipating the comin of the new Aeon (every 6480 years), good or evil in duality, spiritually and materially?

Hope would be a lift in the spirit domain, but it is the geometric aspects that we have to deal with in time, RIGHT?

Do we all have to look beyond the Aeon's 6480 years of written civilizations to comprehend an even larger illumination? :-)

[Robert]

Hi Jacques - This very well could be a new aeon. We won't be transcending duality any time soon, but we will find over time that we've come to a whole new way of being human, after a lot of death and destruction around the corner. Not happy to hear the news about the Sun spot cycle, though it's evident that Earth will have radically different weather patterns for some time to come. The geometric aspects are difficult for some years before they lighten up. Yes, we do have to have a much larger point of view on time, since this age has been a real loser from the standpoint of human "civil"-ization. This very uncivil world population must go through radical changes so we aren't so hostile toward other sentient beings. I hope that the coming years will find rediscoveries of the ancient technologies so we can "remember" other eras from long ago that worked better than this one.

[richard lawler]

I am making a film about diana and the end of the world
www.football666.co.uk

[Robert]

Hi Richard - Checked out your site, but there's no mention of your intended movie. I would have preferred a link directly to the movie, since you didn't really ask me if you could directly self-promote. Since you seem to be legit, I didn't bomb your comment. As for "the end of the world," well, I prefer to call it the end of the Age, or Aeon, since our beautiful ball of dirt will persist for many tens of thousands of years to come, along with evolving humanity.

[Donna]

Hi, Robert et al ... am wondering if you've read some of what Barbara Hand Clow has written about the Mayan calendar and the year 2012. Much of her work is very detailed and/or lofy. I honestly don't understand all of it, but I find the book "the Mayan Code" compelling and pertinent.

Take care, everyone.

D~

[Jacques]

Hi Robert,

What I found about 2012 is that human conscience is progressing through the scale of "Law of Octaves" - Quantum Heap. It is in the Mayan Long Calendar.

Revolution at the time of human evolution is coming to whoever is not awakening to need of harmony in the Universe.

There will be people resistance to heap forward to evolution, thus revolution.

The nuclear bomb for the organized church was the un-earth of Nag Hammadi ancient banned scriptures of 1945 in Eygpt. When everyone knows that one has the capacity to connect with Universal Mind directly and there is no need for a financial broker in the middle.

Nostramadus's new visual materials called for the Quantum change for the church.

Religions are not equal and don't own individual spirituality.

"What was consealed will be discovered, what is covered will be uncovered!"
and
"Truth is stranger than Fiction." - One had connection to the 4th dimension (1878- 1954).

There is LIGHT and LIGHT is all ...

[Robert]

Hi Donna - Have not read any of BHC's works. Will investigate when I have time, or when I can clone myself so I have time to read! ;-) I only know that "the end" is NOT near, though we are approaching a period in cosmic time that will prove to be a line of demarcation between what has been and what could be. I've already noted for years that the time stream has quickened, and karmic results seem to be happening faster as well. It could be because we've collectively reached a point where we should "know better," and are consciously or unconsciously choosing which future path of evolution we'll take, on whatever frequency zones they occur. All the life forms on our planet are now mutating slowly or quickly, due to all kinds of factors, such as increased levels of radiation in the atmosphere, radical climate changes forcing evolutionary shifts in the planets, animals, and humans where they're happening, and things like that. It's a wild ride indeed!

Hi Jacques - I am looking forward to what we are about to re/discover in the way of ancient (and modern) electromagnetic technologies, as well as more sane ways of relating to each other and all that is. Those of us who are attempting to live such things are creating momentum within collective consciousness, which is why the resistance is so heavy. This is truly the dying gasp of an old age of exploitation, separation, and destruction. While we have heavy consequences for our collective stupidity and greed these past 200+ years coming, life will go on and do quite well once we're out from under the collective delusion. Just a few thousand more days.....

[Cornelis Droog]

(comment bombed due to it being spam)

[Robert]

Hi again Cornelius - This is the proprietor of the cantina, also a child of God. While I appreciate diverse views in this forum, I tend to bomb comments like yours which contribute nothing to the dialog. Having gone to the website you left in your comment, I will not allow you to hawk dreck on this site. Sorry, but you've been bombed. This is not a soapbox to spread fear, hatred, or accusatory judgments. Either contribute something compassionate or thoughtful to the dialog or expect similar treatment in the future.

[Mr Mark]

26 Feb. 2008 Owkay Robert, …I shall try to be ‘concise’, but I’ve kinda got the feeling that this will (probably) turn into an Essay.

A couple of weeks ago I sent an e-mail to the folks in Oregon (Foundation for the Law of Time) inquiring about WHY they basically ignore February 29th [“leap year day”] on their current 13month Galactic WaveSpell Calendar. The reply I got was that it is ALSO considered “a day out-of-time”. (How Convenient!) This is only rational IF one accepts the notion that this re-interpretation of the Mayan calendar is correct in beginning the year every July 26th. As one who was (temporarily, just since Groundhog Day) “taken in by this cult”, I really appreciated seeing the post that authoritatively ‘debunks’ the 13-month calendar! Makes no sense at all that the “new” Mayan Calendar would not be consistent with the “old” one, which they refer to as “traditional”. I also sent them 411 I cut n pasted from another Mayan Astrology web site (here’s a link: http://www.mayanmajix.com/TZOLKIN/index.php ) wherein it is explained that if you were born b4 Sunrise, you have to consider yourself as being born on the PREVIOUS day on the Gregorian Calendar. I just felt SURE I’m NOT a “Blue Monkey”. The response was, …obtuse, and insinuated I just didn’t know enough, and need to buy some books etc. to properly educate myself:

“While different astrological systems have their own way of defining the start of the day, for the Dreamspell cosmology, simply calculate as if the day begins at midnight. The
Dreamspell cosmology is a new dispensation of the 13:20 codes that is intended for our time -- which thankfully and ironically we can easily know if we were born before or after midnight without a problem :)

You may want to get a Dreamspell kit ("Dreamspell: Journey of Timeship Earth 2013"), as that is the pure form of the Dreamspell codes as delivered by the Galactic Federation. This will clarify and simplify a lot! Because there are a lot of different interpretations out there that can actually be kind of confusing, it is good to go back to the pure codes as they are, and just use your own intuition (this is the whole point anyway!) :)

This kit is available on the Lawoftime.org bookstore - …….”

Well, my “intuition” had already informed me that the ancient Maya didn’t have a water clock, or use an hourglass, and therefore the “day” begins @ Sunrise (not “civil twilight” or “first light”) when the Sun becomes visible on the eastern horizon. I was born in Alaska during “twilight” (which I suppose lasts quite a while during the winter) about half an hour b4 sunrise. This is something that really bothered me several years ago, b/c at that latitude the placement of Planets in Houses changes dramatically depending on which Monk’s method you use. I “experimented” with Vedic [which over-emphasizes the Houses in the Native’s Chart] and concluded it would only “work” for people who’s Sun Sign didn’t change, (I’m a Capricorn either way)…and let it go at that. Little more than a year ago, however, I was “converted” to Western SIDEREAL Astrology. I felt that I’d finally “found myself”, and that the interpretation of my Natal Chart was far more “accurate” in what I read from a free trial download of Janus. (I’m not aware of any Mayan Astrology Software out there. R U ? ) POINT BEING: I can only agree with that which resonates as truth in my soul. Therefore, I choose to ignore the absurd and ridiculous in favor of being glad and thankful that I’d found yet another method of accessing insight to my personal mission and purpose in this incarnation. Astrology is a useful tool. It helps us to understand the philosopher’s question: “who am I, and why am I here?”. (Well, at least that’s what it has done for me.) I must acknowledge the fact that I really DID benefit from the info I found here:
http://www.astrodreamadvisor.com/free_mayan_readings.html#
…even though it is based on what seems to be an erroneous version of the Mayan calendar. However, it gives me NO HELP whatsoever so far as casting a “horoscope”!

So what about 12_21_2012? I think it is pretty simple (assuming that the man who calculated that date was truly “accurate”). The Maya ended the long count on the precise the day when our Sun/Star would align with the Galactic Center. Let’s not start a new religion over this! But right now we are beginning to feel the energies being presented to us that will be necessary to work with in The New Age.
I read in another article of yours that “Jupiter rules the Sun”. Where does that come from, Robert? I’ve never heard that one b4. Recently I found something on the web stating that Jupiter is actually a Sun in the 4th dimension. Our current “Sun” appears to be “switched off” in 4-D. Perhaps our species is about to experience a paradigm shift? I believe that “the time of the end” is NOT “the end of time”! I’ve been doing a lot of research lately on this topic, and have come to some (admittedly subjective) conclusions on the matter, and [as per 1st line here] I’m trying to be concise [spare you the details]; but I’m inclined to believe that it will be all-at-once horrible AND wonderful. There will certainly be a FEW that are destined to make the Transformation, while the MANY “perish” (recognizing the fact that no soul ever dies). Those of us who are “predestined” to make the shift in consciousness will do so. How that may or may not affect the physical 3-D body is something that is, in the meantime, consigned to the realm of speculation. It is probably helpful to you who read this to think of this “end date” like an odometer. Once it gets to “all nines”, it will “roll over” to all zeros. So it is simultaneously the End AND the Beginning. We can pretty-well guess what’s gonna’ end. The question is what shall begin? The Galactic Center is said to be @ 25 degrees Sagittarius, actually at the point in space where the tip of his arrow points, “IN” Ophiuchus. Nostradamus is said to have made predictions about this celestial event. [The conjunction of the Sun w/ the Galactic Center.] I find it “interesting” that the genius Astrologer Dane Rhudyar wrote a book on USA’s Ascendant being @ 13degrees Sagittarius – not Scorpio (or Gemini) as claimed by most. A pole shift seems to be “inevitable”, …we just don’t know when.

This is one of only 3 Astrology web sites I still visit regularly. I’m by no means a professional Astrologer, and (‘due to circumstances beyond my control’) haven’t had the ca$h to buy the Software I want; so I have to depend on what is available for FREE on the web for personal (horoscope) transits, which are sufficient so long as the Planets are not interpreted according to the “sign” in the Tropical zodiac – which I no longer consider “valid”. (For the uninitiated: The Sidereal Zodiac agrees with ASTRONOMY. Western Astrologers are still using the same zodiac as was in effect during the Middle Ages, which is now “off” by nearly 24 degrees, due to precession of the Spring Equinox.)

In the Western Sidereal Zodiac Saturn is currently Retrograde @ 10 degrees LEO – not Virgo – and Pluto has just begun it long sojourn into Sagittarius, rather than leaving it January 25th, 2008. In this article you are talking about the psyche of everyone on the planet as they experience the conjunction of (transiting) Saturn with (natal) Pluto.

Sidereal Pluto was in Leo in 1960. It is still true that my “generation” is experiencing Saturn’s conjunction with Pluto, but the way in which that may be interpreted may be drastically different from how a person would look at it in (Tropical) Virgo. Given the fact that Saturn is called “ruler” of us old goats, I’m very uncomfortable with the notion that Tropical (Western) Astrologers are assuring me that “all is well” now that it has moved into Capricorn, when I know better.

please not only comment here, but also send a note to my e-mail

And…what’s this about Jupiter being RULER of the Sun?

[Mr Mark]

Current Transits,
SIDEREAL:

Sun : 13Aqu23
Moon: 25Lib48
Mercury: 16Cap52
Venus: 17Cap14
Mars: 3Gem23
Jupiter: 20Sag20
Saturn: 9Leo59 Rx
Uranus: 23Aqu12
Neptune: 27Cap28
Pluto: 5Sag58
Chiron: 22Cap57

This is how ASTRONOMERS view or Solar System.
Compare this data to
Planets in Signs in the Tropical Zodiac.

I'm not being dogmatic -- just looking for answers.
We R @ the END of another [approx] 26,000-year cycle!

The Sphinx is said to be a monument to the mid-point, about 11,000 bce, [13,000 years b4 NOW] when the CUSP of the Ages of Virgo/Leo (head of a Woman on the body of a Lion) occurred. [probably not built then, but a memorial of that celestial event] Likewise, we are on the CUSP of the Ages of Pisces/Aquarius.

When evaluating/speculating 12_21_2012 we should not limit ourselves to "signs" as seen from our world. We must think bigger. On a Galactic Scale. Recognizing the fact that OUR Galaxy is one of MANY. Our Solar System is ALSO in an Orbit around the Galactic Center. Our (Milky Way) Galaxy is also in an "orbit", around what, we know not. I believe the Mayan understanding of the Venus - Earth connection to be the real KEY in our realization of what we can expect in the next few years. It is the ONLY planet in our Solar System that orbits Counter-clockwise! The Venus Transits of the Sun in June 2004 & 2012 cannot be ignored.

I think it is all about unconditional love.
We may become telepathic - or at least EMpathic - after the SHIFT, which I would suggest just might happen "in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye".
[I Corinthians 15:52]

PS: I have been telling people for YEARS now, "just read the RED ink!". AMEN, brother Robert!

[Robert]

Hi Mr. Mark - You asked a lot of things, and asserted a lot of things. While I'll answer some of them in this comment stream, the bulk of my response is coming in an article I'll post later today.

First, as a writer and editor of my own and others' works for decades, please be more concise in the future, since over-long comments tend to make people leave if they're not particularly interested in what the commenter is saying. Speaking as an editor, it's important to consider the audience and keep the message focused so they want to stay engaged in what they're reading.

In the case of the current "debate" over the Mayan calendar and what it purports to "predict," I'm sure there are accurate elements of the Dreamspell philosophy, as well as other elements that could use a little tweaking. Actually, much of the argument assumes we know how the ancient Maya, or Toltecs, interpreted time, what they did or did not have or use to determine their space-time reference. At best we have remnants of the culture, probably not in any way complete.

The pyramid builders have been with us for about a million years, have left their mark many places on Earth, and had to know some pretty sophisticated knowledge to do such things with precision, not just as buildings, but as electromagnetic field focus points in some amazing alignment with the planet itself. What we don't know and are assuming will no doubt fill many future books.

To address your comment about house placement of planets. There are many ways to divide the circle. They involve, space, time, and space-time. Please re-read my article about house systems to get a sense of my view. My old friend Carl Payne Tobey thought anyone born in the higher latitudes should use an Equal House system based in the MC, since it's the only point that doesn't shift with latitude. To address your connect between the Sun-Venus cycle connecting 2004 and 2012, do more research. It is a phenomena that occurs like clockwork every 8 years, regardless of what years you're examining. I'll be composing an article on it in the future, since it's an interesting set of parallels.

And yes, we're definitely on the same page regarding the Red Letters. Enlightenment does indeed happen in the flash of an instant, changing us forever.

[Mr Mark]

RE: Venus Transit.
I was referring SPECIFICALLY to the June 8th, 2004 even that hadn't happend since Captain Cook [and others] observed Venus transiting in front of the Sun so as that it appears to be a "black dot On the Sun".
The will (of course) happen again June 6th, 2012.

Wish you would comment about a "transformation in consciousness", ...the idea that Jupiter will be our NEW Sun, ...the probability of a Pole Shift.

graciously yours;
Mark

[Mr Mark]

"concise" enuf 4 U ???

[Robert]

Hi Mr. Mark - According to my understanding, Venus goes RX fairly frequently, and at the inferior conjunction it crosses the disc in what is called an occultation, a fairly frequent astronomical phenomenon. It has certainly occurred "since Captain Cook." Venus exactly mirrors her cycle relative to the Sun in 8 year spans. And Jupiter will never be our Sun, regardless of whether we do or don't experience a pole shift. Jupiter is its own Sun of its own system in-the-becoming in an eon to come. In all likelihood, if the past is any indicator of the future, should there be a "pole shift" it will yield another era of the Sun rising in the West and setting in the East. It's happened before, just as the era before that oriented the way we presently are.

[Popplagid]

Hey Mr Mark,

I think there has been wild and wide speculation and insight into 2012.
No one knows for sure what may happen, and one thing is sure, the future is flexible and made by the choices in the present, in which we should focus with a sense of love, service and humbleness.

I am aware there are dimensions above ours, and that things are different. And that by consciousness and possibly by turning of the clock we will sooner or later come there (not any more solely on dreams of Out of body experiences).

I choose not to focus in the possibility odn world disasters. I trust in the divine intelligence of the flow of the universe and life.
I trust that consciousness always evolves.
For me, signs are very important but since I often listen myself, I often get trash from new age signs popping up around the web. If change is to happen, some more practical advice concerning new ways of living and dealing with that, would be the most appreciated.

Best for all and Peace,

[Mr Mark]

cut n pasted:
"The last time Venus transited the Sun was in 1882, and before that in 1874. There is a cycle involved: for our purposes, two events at an interval of eight years, then a pause for about 121.5 years, then another in eight years. This is the first of a pair of events that mark the approach to a time known as 2012. These Venus transit events stand as bookends between now and the many, many changes that are on the way."

[Robert]

Hi Popplagid - I'm sure you'll like today's post, since it addresses some of your concerns, especially the glamorous speculations about the shift of the Age. We are altering the course of things in the future by what we do, think, and work toward in the present. And yes, vibratory shifts are quickening much that we aren't yet aware of. As for disasters, I believe we've set things into motion that will radically alter the way we do things and relate to each other and the Earth. That said, it all serves to remind us of our interconnectedness and ability to serve the common good. Most New Age pronouncements are useless to help us with what's coming not that far down the road. And while many will suffer (and ARE suffering!) there will also be places and communities that will do relatively well, depending on their focus and cooperative potential. That's why I do try to be practical in what I write here.

Hi Mr. Mark - What you posted is exactly why I ignore most stuff published out there. I just don't have time to dispel illusions and glamorous pronouncements, since I have plenty of work to do here. Sorry to put a wet blanket on your source, but Venus conjuncts the Sun twice in two years, once retrograde and once direct. Period. It's astronomy, remember? Given the orbits, how could Venus not conjunct the Sun more than once every 12 years? That makes no sense at all! I also get annoyed when people make these supposedly important reports supported by some random correlation, then fail to draw any meaning whatsoever other than some grave and/or vague "prediction" of things to come. There is nothing in what you cut and pasted that explains the meaning of the phenomena, why it should have that meaning, or what difference it makes for the price of tea and eggs.

[Dub Vir Gem Mn]

Folks, From what i remember about the venus transits, They occur in 520 yr cycles. This one starting 1492 then 8 years after 1500 for the first pair of conjunctions was the beginning of the coming together of the Global Brain. The first pair was the coming together of the people of the earth with the Europeans coming to America.

The transits generally occur in a predictable pattern of two occurring in an eight-year period, followed by one 105 1/2 years later and another eight years after that. After an additional 121 1/2 years, the pattern
repeats. The paired eight-year sightings occur because a Venusian year equals 224.7 Earth days, making 13 Venusian years equal to eight Earth years. That allows the planets to return to about the same alignment with the Sun they had been in eight years earlier, after which they go out of sync for more than a century.

The next pair maybe was the laying of the railroads which furthered communication between folks. Next pair was laying of the transatlantic cables setting up communication between the continents. Not sure how these went but each successive pair of eclipses further brought the Global Brain into manifestation..

With the last pair in 2004 and 2012 being the one in 2004 was the laying of the telepathic template in our zone and by 2012 we should all be linked telepathically coalescing with the accession of the Mayan Calendar through each successive underworld..

There are nine underworlds of creation, each one 20 times faster than the previous one.

The first underworld termed the Cellular started with the big bang and lasted 16.4 billion years and birthed Eukaryotic cells 1.5 billion years ago.

The next one, the Mammalian underworld started with the first animals and lasted 820 million years birthing Placental Mammals 65 million years ago.

Then the Familial underworld started with the first monkeys and lasted 41 million years and birthed Australopithecus 3 million years ago.

Then the Tribal underworld started with the first humans and lasted 2 million years and birthed Homo Sapiens 150,000 years ago.

Then the Regional or Cultural underworld started with the first spoken language and lasted 102,000 years and birthed Agriculture 8000 yrs ago.

Then the National underworld started with the first written language and lasted 5,125 yrs and birthed the Modern Nation 1600s.

Then the Planetary underworld started with industrialization 1755ish and lasted 256 years and birthed computer networks in 1992.

This is where it becomes subject to interpretation and which template of mayan time one juxtapositions onto the gregorian calendar. This is also when we should be able to rectify as there is so much change happening in so little time it will become obvious how it all fits together.

According Dr. Callemans interpretation the Galactic Cycle started Jan. 5th 1999 and will go through thirteen Heavens or 7 days and 6 nights of 360 days each termed a Tun and end 10-28-2011 and birth Ethics. A little different end date than the Izapa Maya which gave us the 12-21-2012 end date..

Next the Universal underworld starting 2-11-2011 and ending 10-28-2011 with thirteen heavens of 20 days each and birthing Conscious Co-Creation.. Taking us to the end of the Calendar when everything is happening all at once that ever could happen so there was no more need to keep track of time so the calendar ends.

[Mr Mark]

excellent! thanx for backing me up, D V G M !

I am familliar w/ J C Calleman's "stuff". He sais that we are now "in the night of the 5th day". Throughout ALL recorded history, EACH and EVERY Time it has cycled thru,...it has never been "good". Ominous.
Since the Spring of 004, purely out of intuition, I've been "preaching" that "it is gonna get a whole lot worse b4 it gets better". This, however, does NOT mean that I give place for fear! One thing I often say about Astrology, when speaking with professing Christians, is that everybody would like to think themselves capable of being an "overcomer" [ref 2 the so-called "book of revelation"] but they (for the most part) have NO IDEA just WHAT it is they must "overcome"! I say again, Astrology is a useful TOOL. But one cannot give his or her power away. We are to honor one another and make room for "power from within", rahter than asserting "power over". Our Western Culture is exceedingly competitive. (If you don't believe that, just watch "Survivor" on CBS.) It will take, in my humble opinion, nothing less that a 'catastrophic' event or 'crisis' of some kind to induce people to WAKE UP!, and begin the process of learning all over again, from scratch [prbly w/o electricity] how to live in COMMUNITY again.

in lak 'ech !

__Mark

PS: really dissapointed in you, Robert!

[Dub Vir Gem Mn]

True as too the fifth night Mr. Mark, it is when the reigning entity from the previous underworld has its final death throes before the new underworld gains prominence..

During the National underworld when we were developing Laws, in the fifth night was Atilla and the Huns sacking Rome.. Atilla and the Huns being from the cultural phase ie regional or nomadic tribes final stand against the Nation State of Rome...

During the Planetary Phase when we were developing Power, during the fifth night we find the rising of Hitler which is the final push of the state.

Now for the Galactic underworld by Dr. Callemans calculations we are in the fifth night from 11-19-07 thru 11-12-08, whereas by the Maya from Izapa who give us the enddate of 12-21-2012 we are in the fifth day as of 1-17-08 thru 1-10-09..

Good videos on the subject: Put Ian Lundgold into Google video... PEACE

[Popplagid]

Robert, you said that "Most New Age pronouncements are useless to help us with what's coming not that far down the road. And while many will suffer (and ARE suffering".
Our lives do indeed pose a great risks. We may face economical collapse, climatic hard change, get with no electricity due to that or extreme solar flare, etc, etc.
Well, pratically speaking: I think growing our own food, preparing to live off-grid, collecting water, etc, in community style, may be our only solutions then.
We are very far away from a pure natural state. Even though I grow food (at least tomatoes, salads, make bread, yogurt, etc) and even though I have contacts with commuities and rural livin, I still wonder what we would do pratically speaking, for growing food, harvesting water, providing heat and etc.
It no so easy to achieve such pratical things, but maybe it could be a call (it is already a call by the way!) to open ourselves to each other, to earth and to our hearts and souls!

[Robert]

Hi Dub Vir Gem Mn - Obviously you've done some investigation. While I'm not an expert on the infinite parsing of the Mayan calendar system, and given my other work load I probably shouldn't be taking the time to address this right now, it seems like we're somewhat comparing apples and oranges regarding planetary cycles. I care about actual planetary cycles, whereas Dr. Calleman specifically mentions that the Maya did not use that reference.

What we should be very much aware of however is that they did not regard the Sacred Calendar as based on any astronomical cycle. Instead the Maya were interested in how the astronomical cycles were related to the Sacred Calendar.

So I suppose that the Venus cycle arguments are introduced for some reason, but it doesn't seem the Maya cared, except to start with a pure numerical system and seek to figure out how some of the planets related to that system. In any case, yes, Venus does have a year of 224.7 Earth days. but it does also conjunct the Sun twice in any given 19 month period, and regardless of whatever sector of the sky it's in, exactly repeats its cycle every 8 years relative to the Earth. And there is no such thing as a Venusian eclipse. It's called an occultation in astronomy.

My old friend, venerated Native American author Dr. Vine Deloria, would hardly think, nor would ANY other member of the native tribes of the Americas think, that the arrival of the Europeans constituted "the global brain." They brought pestilence, disease, slavery, torture, and slaughter, hardly "the global brain." I reject the notion that because SOME Europeans got here and enslaved the natives that it constituted a positive breakthrough. Before then, tribes enslaved each other; after then Europeans enslaved the tribes. "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss" but with guns and syphilis. One point of fact: The "first coming together of the people of the earth with the Europeans" did not happen in 1492, since the Scandinavians made it here centuries before that. 1492 didn't even mark the "discovery" of North America, but only the landing on a Caribbean island by brutish Spaniards on ships captained by an Italian. There were other contacts in the hundreds of years before that, if we are to believe historical evidence and anecdotal accounts on both coasts.

The laying of the railroads also was not the first transcontinental contact, but merely the punctuation point in time establishing the railroad monopoly on the right to cut public lands, destroy animal and human habitat, and generally create misery across thousands of square miles. You could perhaps make an argument for the telegraph, since it allowed the transmission of information ("neural impulses") quicker than ever before. Invented in 1830, the first transcontinental telegraph lines predated the linking of the railroads by almost a decade. As for telepathic linkage, again, I'm on record that if it doesn't play in Biafra or Bangladesh, then it's local, not global. Can you cite one actual study that demonstrates or proves that the majority of the human race is evolving telepathically on a global level? We are quickening, and know more than ever before, but that's not telepathy in the true sense of that term. I've done research over the years on paranormal phenomena of many sorts, and I know of no study that demonstrates telepathy as a growing widespread phenomenon. Many have cultivated it across the centuries, but that too is no concrete sign that a being is evolved, since it's a power latent in humanity that can be cultivated through practice, and may not indicate anything about one's heart development.

While I've seen this "timeline of evolution" before, I challenge some of the sloppy numbers, especially in light of historical fact and what we've been told by sources much older than the Mayan civilization. While some venerable source material from other systems agrees humanity began 3M years ago, it was about 1 million years ago that humanity, it its Atlantean forms, walked the Earth until 9500 BC, mas o menos. They apparently were like us in many respects, except the earlier ones only had 3 senses, the middle ones had 4 senses, and those of "recent" origin had 5 senses due to the evolving human mechanism. But the number of senses we have operating cannot be a definitive statement of homo sapiens, since millions on our planet today also have less than 5 senses operating. Some seem barely more sentient than my cat!

The first spoken language was over 1 million years ago, in the sense of language as we now know it, rather than the grunting and gesturing of simians, though these also are considered "language" within that field of study. Even if we narrow the focus to mainstream research, due to the evolution of the human larnyx, it is fairly well accepted that language began around 400,000 years ago, not when your source asserts. Agriculture was practiced many hundreds of thousands of years ago, if we are to believe the same records of antiquity predating the Mayan calendar. The first "written language" was a prehistoric form of Senzar, also ancient beyond measure, certainly more than 8000 years ago.

The industrial revolution began earlier than the year you state, and the internet was invented in 1973, introduced in 1983, and the world wide web was developed in 1989, not 1992. As for Hitler marking the "final push of the state," uhhhh.... the current neocons have furthered that totalitarian model beyond anything Hitler could have imagined, and it's still coming apart at the seams, so unless you're linking Hitler with the Republican neocons, there's a disconnect in the timeline. Of course, I will accept that our modern government is the direct offspring of the fascists.

There is something important to note from Calleman's site:

Many people hear about the so-called end date of the Mayan calendar, and today some people have even created the illusion that the Mayan calendar was designed only to point out this end date. In reality, there is nothing to indicate that the ancient Maya who developed the Long Count calendar had any interest in what would happen as this calendar came to an end. (Emphasis mine)

The fact that the Mayan Long Count was based on the day the sun was in zenith in Izapa, has however created a very significant misunderstanding among modern people, and this is that it would end on December 21, 2012. The particular date the sun is in zenith in this location obviously has no relevance in the rest of the world, but because of the power of tradition some will still adhere to it. In reality, the creation cycle that began as the First Father erected the World Tree will end on October 28, 2011. This day is also 13 Ahau in the sacred Mayan calendar, an energy with great prophetical relevance.

My local Mayan expert of many years says there actually were at one point 20 different calendars. And I'll remind readers that our understanding of ancient sources depends on how one interprets numbers, time, and evolution. Unless we study the source of the predictions, including those given to us by Chilam Balam, and know symbology, context, and the way the ancients conceptualized that which they were trying to say in a veiled manner, then it's very speculative what these periods actually mean. One cautionary note - though the Maya had an advanced civilization, they were not the first nor best of the pyramid builders, and the fact that their civilization had a place for brutal human sacrifice makes me suspect just how evolved they were, relative to the other descendants of the original Toltecs of antiquity, such as the Hopi.

Despite all the glamorous inferences about the meaning of "the end of the Mayan calendar," I'll continue to dance with the planets, their cycles, and what evolutionary tools I know from civilizations more ancient and seemingly more evolved than the Maya. As a former Nostradamus scholar of many years, as well as a student of other prophesies and symbologies, I've heard and read a lot of garbage concerning prophesies from supposed "experts" and all the bad things that supposedly will occur. As is always the case on our gentle Earth, for some, there will be great suffering. For others, the notion they must suffer is ridiculous! The levitating Yogis will not suffer, nor will the disciples of Amma, Babaji, or the host of other Saints, Sages, and Avatars now already walking the Earth. You cannot be completely devoted to Spiritual service and still suffer, since losing oneself in Spirit and indulging in suffering are mutually exclusive, unless you're referring to the ecstatic suffering of Rumi!

As for Ian Lundgold, I've seen a long video of his work, and he just doesn't know history. Period. He throws a lot of spaghetti against a wall and hopes some of it will stick. Whatever else I don't know (which could fill an ocean liner) I do know history fairly well, having been fascinated with every aspect of it since very young from the dinosaurs to the rise and fall of the various empires on Earth. With all due respect to Mr. Lundgold, God rest his Soul, his knowledge of history had holes large enough to drive a semi through it.

Hi Mr. Mark - I am so sorry you're disappointed. I'm sure it's not the first time, nor the last. I will say your focus on "ominous" stuff speaks more of your attachment to drama, and therefore glamor, than your critical thinking skills. Anyone who knows history, whether esoteric or the straight boring stuff, knows there's a lot of garbage and sloppy scholarship being put out there about this phenomenon. As for your intuition, it's been fairly obvious to many that our currently structured reality is unsustainable. I've been speaking of the coming water wars, ecological imbalances, and the unsustainability of the modern urban plan since the 80s, this not requiring much intuition to see the writing on the wall. Also, I've been aware of and marked the "end of the age of empire" in some gatherings in the early 90s, due to eclipses and massive alignments occurring at that time indicating this time of intense change and decay, where magnetics would become the field of focus globally.

Things are always ending and beginning. The trick is to understand what, and how best to respond to the evolutionary challenges confronting us. I don't know how you can tie the study of Astrology with giving one's power away. That's also an absurdity that is unsustainable, since regardless of our belief systems, we're either acting, reacting, or being acted upon. And of course in this world there are those who are driving their own boat, and hitchhikers who have their thumbs out hoping some one or thing will move them along. As for electricity, we've only just begun to reclaim our knowledge of that universal force, if in fact we have begun the era of the ascending Dwapara Yuga. The source of what we know about the Yugas is also much more ancient and better researched and understood than the Mayan philosophy.

Folks - the Mayan calendar is not the be all and end all of things. There are other sources of greater antiquity, much better understood in terms of symbology and meanings, than the current buzz about the Mayan "end times." While there will be much change and upheaval in present and future years, the future of humanity's so bright we all better get our sunglasses out. We have a more glorious future than most suspect. And time will continue, as will evolution on this gentle planet, for many tens of thousands of years to come, yielding better eras than we've known in our entire recorded history. That said, it is my sincere hope that others who need to post on this subject will be accurate in their assertions, and not attempt to hijack the thread any further with erroneous, glamorous, or cautionary warnings. That's not what this classroom is about.

[Robert]

Hi Popplagid - Life always presents risks. Some suffer, some don't. I'm not into "New Age" anything, but I am into cooperation, magnetics, and thinking in the future. We are all loving, wise, intelligent sentient beings, some more aware of those qualities than others. We're all in this together, and are on the path of destroying forever "the heresy of separateness." While dramatic things are happening, and will continue to happen, we must learn to cooperate and not yield to glamor, illusion, or Maya. You're right that sustainable models are required, and of course this involves cooperation, since none of us is able to do it alone. While it's not easy, it's actually easier than ever before in recorded human history, so all in all, we can crank up sustainable models quicker now than in any other era. And yes, we are advanced minds, but need desperately to become advanced hearts blended with mind in cooperative models of interacting with each other and the Earth Herself.

[Robert]

Hi all - A note from the Professor. I felt it appropriate to modify this comment stream because it had been hijacked. It did not go much of anywhere productive, and was not in the Spirit of what I aspire to offer. And of course, productive dialog is always welcome.

[Popplagid]

Great Robert,

I though the though of schoolroom and learning place, that should hang in our hearts dearly, aiming for those very very bright futures.
What do you mean about magnetics?
Dwapara Yuga begins then in this new century, following Kali Yuga, the less bright of all ages?

Best for all,

[Klaudi Zic]

Uranus is in Cetus. This basic zodiacal position is completely unknown to the large public, but the Mayan people did have the proper experts, they could calculate Venus across (our) 21 zodiacal constellations. Until some years ago, we did not even have a zodiac.

[Robert]

Hi Klaudi - Cetus and Ophiuchus have both been known to astrologers for almost 40 years if they are familiar with the pioneering work "Astrology 14," and of course they were well known to the Greeks. To paraphrase a friend of mine with a PhD in Particle Theory, there are many "constellations" as well as planets in the sky. We can combine the stars in countless ways, so why merely 21 constellations? Why not 360? Or 2100? The trick is to interpret meaning of the parts relative to the whole. Don't know where you're getting that we didn't have a zodiac, since the Babylonians had eclipse tables going back 250,000 years. Also, the Secret Doctrine makes it clear that there are other "zodiacs" than the one we use today originating in antiquity, including one in which the signs are clockwise rather than counterclockwise. This was also explored by my old friend and 20th century astrological pioneer Carl Payne Tobey, who found merit. I took it further, but that's more than we can get into in this comment stream.

[Aditya]

Hi Robert, I've just finished reading all the articles regarding 2012 and beyond and would like to say that you have such an effortless grip on the things which are necessary for all humanity. I am a student of your work, which means I come to your site after I have been overwhelmed by circumstances(some literally beyond my control). I remember reading somewhere that it is useless to worry about tomorrow if until now we've been just fine(still alive, well fed and rested etc). I do feel that things will get better and that we are already living through enough chaos, which will make the new dawn (however simple) feel like paradise.
I would like to share something here. Something regarding our dreams.
In the past up until last year, I would dream of ghouls chasing me and I would be unable to outrun them, or dream of trying to fly but couldn't. NOW, whenever I see a dream starting with someone trying to scare me, I can fight back and defeat them with ease. I can also fly anywhere I want in my dreams. (I have also asked my family about this and they have literally said the same things regarding their dreams)

I take all these symbols to mean that good things are unfolding for us and as I have always said, Thank you for being the True Sage to us in these troubled times.

[Aditya]

Hi again Robert, Hope the family and you are well. Is it okay if I ask another short question which may or may not require a detailed explanation.

As you may be aware that there are many fearmongers out there predicting many nasty things to happen (2012) which may or may not be true.

I believe you have said in one of your posts that there may be a pole shift in our lifetime. If that happens, then will it be catastrophic where only a few thousand people will survive to start rebuilding a better future? How do we know who will survive if that is the case?

Hope this qustion is acceptable here. Thank you.

[Robert]

Hi Aditya - I've never believed that fearing things to come helped get the job done, so to speak. It didn't come naturally, but having learned it, I find it one of the best tools to use when things are chaotic and people are drawing conclusions on the wall. I believe 2012 (and the years before and after) are very momentous ones for all of us, since our non-sustainable reality is leaking at the seams and our so-called "leaders" seem unable or unwilling to address solutions outside the problems that got us in a mess to begin with. As for useless worry, well, my phrase is "stop worrying about things that can't be solved by your worrying."

Dreams are symbolic or prophetic. Yours seem to be clear symbols of your own inner progress in taking command of your vehicle and getting beyond inability, fear, etc. I do believe dreams are important regardless of which kind they are, and agree that yours indicate very good things for you and your loved ones.

A pole shift is not something that can be definitively predicted at a given time, since we have no reference point for such things in the past, even though they have occurred. While it is possible (like a meteor strike) it is also an event of such cataclysmic proportions that it would be unhelpful to do or say anything about it other than live as best we can in sustainable community while tending to our spiritual evolution. I feel that those who make glamorous predictions of super-bad things are self-promoting bloviators whose lower ego needs to be "important." Better to encourage, inspire, and further cooperative sustainability than say things that lead to ego-puffery. If we are here to build and use wisely our "glamor dispelling mechanism," then we're better off not indulging in glamors regardless of how important they make our ego feel.

As far as I can see, there will be many more than just a few thousand survive into the future. As for who will survive potential cataclysms, it's all a matter of geography. Different places have different problems. And of course, humanity IS on the arc of return, so we'll never go back to forms of ignorance and brutality worse than what are already with us. While we will go through some fairly difficult times ahead, if in fact all is God and God is All-That-Is, then the more we allow our personalities to do Higher work and become our Higher Self, the more we will be in harmony with All-That-Is. Then we become part of what I have termed "the corrective force of Nature Herself" and will find ourselves doing exactly what we should, exactly where we should, with those with whom we are connected within the larger spiritual field.

[Aditya]

Thank you Robert for your clear and concise explanation. What I really like about you is that you can explain complex things in very simple language. Its like I needed you to confirm what I thought was the right thing to do.
I am trying to be aware of my negative tendencies at all times and trying to see beauty in all living things. I have felt myself smiling more (unconciously) when I have taken time to love humanity unconditionally.

I should also say that I feel myself becoming like an alien in the midst of my extended family. Though I consider you my alien friend (if you know what I am writing about).

Best wishes and love

[Robert]

Hi Aditya - Glad you appreciate my somewhat skeptical take on most "new age" glamorous predictions. We're all in this together, and if we show up, learn what we can, share what we can, and pull together in teams according to our enlightened self-interest, miracles can occur. Even though the work of self-perfecting is eternal, it's up to us to enjoy the journey, and each opportunity to love helps us to become stronger in our Loving Wisdom. Am definitely familiar with feeling like an alien. Glad there are so many of us on Earth!;-)