Some Thoughts About Sun Sign Astrology and Solar Charts

by Robert Wilkinson

Been away from the computer for a few days reconnecting with an old friend from across the continent. Today will be short, but cover several things that have come to me via email. Yes, Sun sign astrology can be just as effective as a natal chart for seeing what's up, what's coming, why and when. Though there are some differences, Sun sign astrology can serve as a valid substitute if the exact birth time is unknown. I've had great success over the years helping those who don't know their birth time, since the other planets don't move very far each day, and so can be determinators of the highest level in helping us understand the timing on things.

These are called "Solar charts," and work by putting the Sun on the Eastern horizon and drawing the houses from the Solar degree. Thus it's a Sunrise chart. I've always used equal houses when looking at Solar charts, since they are about the safest way to divide space and time when one of the time variables (time of birth) is an unknown.

The aspects and their orbs work the same way, the cycles work the same way, the house rulerships work the same way, the dispositors work the same way, and the transits make the same aspects at about the same time they would when working with a natal chart, except perhaps for the Moon, which can be off a few degrees from its "true" position in the natal chart.

Long time readers of this column know that much of what I say about the individual signs is based in the principles of Sun sign astrology. Over the years I've noted that the Solar chart and its symbols act as a secondary chart of sorts, equally valid as the natal but with subtle differences. Saturn in the Solar 4th house has similar effects as Saturn in the natal 4th, and Saturn transits through the Solar houses has very similar appearances as when it transits the natal houses.

So even if you don't know a birth time, you can still examine a chart and find almost limitless things about the characteristics of that chart. Over years of reading both types of charts, I find both natal and Solar are true and accurate, though with a slightly different emphasis on what it means to the individual, since the Sun and Ascendant represent different parts of our existence.

© Copyright 2007 Robert Wilkinson

Comments

[deena]

you were away? hardly even missed a beat. admit it, you're addicted to teaching us all astrology!

i was recently wondering about this very topic. i really relate to saturn going through my 12th house right now (according to the solar chart), although it's going through my 7th according to the birth chart for the right time.

i also find that the solar chart seems to work better in predicting what the focus of my activity will be for the month (ie, solar leo is really a time of review/regeneration for me rather than partnerships!)

never really noticed this before until my 12th house volume got kicked up to max (sigh). Do you have links to any good 12th house info or personal experience? - it's so hard to understand and navigate sometimes.

[DianatheHuntress]

Welcome back, Robert... you were missed! It's always obvious when your divine spirit is "away from the computer"..... this question sort of off-topic, but wondering if you ever consider Astrocartography at all? (Remember the late great Jim Lewis?).....

Thanks for looking into this..... D. :-} -----*

[Micheline]

Hi, Robert, you hardly ever miss anything even if you go away. I am not sure how you do it. Can you share your secrets with us!!! I do have a question regarding the solar return charts. Is it better to do a relocation and or look at both natal birth location and relocation. For instance, I live in Japan and have for a few years. I did my last solar return to where I currently live. I was checking what the current one would be like if I stay in Japan and thought it would be better to skew it to where it might be stronger or better for me house wise. What do you think?

[Dina]

Hi Robert, I always come to this site and read your articles. I have been trying to find good sources on how to relate with Chiron in our Natal charts. Could you please do an article about Chiron in the future.

[ann]

Hi Robert...Am reading your articles as much as possible,where ever I could find a line( as I am always mobile most time) and you are definitely missed for the past few days...as it is,a lot of things happening in Aceh,storm and flood everywhere..can u imagine the main road to my housing area were 2 meters deep overtaken by the sea now,and on the other main road,5 meters deep in sea water...seem its pretty bleak when I heard from some friends that the geologicallly of the surrounding indonesian plateu are changing..inevitably bringing with it a lot of weather changes I guess ..at the same time,am always finding myself low in energy,sleeping most days and alert from 12 am till 7 am...seriously am thinking of my job now Robert..its not so much about the place but the people that I have to encountered...I feel strongly that I have change a lot too in term of attitude for the past 5 weeks..doesnt see things in rose coloured glass much lately...till then Robert...

[Robert]

Hi Deena - Well, I just try to cover what matters that I can't include in my personal readings! I mean, after about 20 years of people griping that there's valuable info they're not getting, I figured it was time to do what I could. As for your question re: the 12th house, I just composed an article which will post tonight on the subject, so if you're up after midnight PDT you can read it tonight, or it will greet you first thing tomorrow morning. How's that for service with a smile? ;-)

Hi Diana - Well, it's just that I have a very full life outside of blogging, and sometimes all I can do is post when I can! As for Astrocartography, I knew Jim Lewis back when he first created the concept, and had one of the first ones done. That said... I have always had serious reservations about their validity, due to my belief that we can only be born where we are. However, astrocartographic maps are computed for "if we were born in such and such a place, it would put X on the MC," or whatever. While they purport to explain much in the way of opportunity or a lack thereof due to location, they are also so generalized and sometimes vague that anything often can mean anything, not very helpful if you know what I mean. And I find it interesting that in my chart, as well as others I've looked at, the cluster of opportunity often falls in the middle of an ocean, or Siberia. These don't seem to me to be fertile areas of personal or professional development, unless I'm salvaging wrecks of Spanish galleons bearing gold bullion or doing undersea mining operations. So while they may constitute an interesting form of entertainment and may even correlate in certain cases, I tend to take what they indicate with more than a proverbial grain of salt. I use geodetic equivalents, national and state charts, and incorporation charts for cities when doing relocation work.

Hi Micheline - Interesting your question dovetails with my previous answer. I ONLY use the location you're at in the Solar Return, and ONLY equal house system. Your Solar Return should not be computed for your birth place unless your body is actually there. I do quite a few solar return charts for people where I figure out the best location option they give me to tweak the house positions of the planets. Sometimes it makes all the difference in the world if an aspect falls in the cadent rather than the angular houses or vise-versa. I have done many of my own Solar Returns in places distant from where I live, but also done quite a few near or at where I live if the chart is okay and an effort to go elsewhere wouldn't yield significantly better results. As for me not missing anything, well, I suppose it comes with a hyperactive personality.;-)

Hi Dina - I have, and will use it to springboard into another one next week. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Robert]

Hi Ann - Your comment came in while I was creating the last set of answers, so you get your own space! Glad you can check in from time to time given the extreme hardships of your physical environment. All low areas will be dealing with water issues in the future, thanks to melting glaciers. I blogged about that in my now defunct political blog for years, and most ignored me or thought I was "tin foil hat" material until "An Inconvenient Truth" made the rounds. Now I look like I was a visionary of things to come! That's how much public opinion is worth!!

Vitality and energy do go through fluctuations, so don't be too hard on yourself, plus add the collective tension and despair and if you're sensitive at all, you'll feel pretty fatigued. Try to cut yourself some slack, open to the planetary energy, and go deeper into your mystery. You have been part of the corrective force of Nature Herself for those you serve, but you are also human. And of course, your work is blessed, whether you feel up or down about it. Do what you can, and take care of yourself. You are truly loved and appreciated for all you've done. Rest, regenerate, and focus on your highest good, whether more of the same or something different that could be fulfilling.

[ann]

Bless you dearest Robert...thank you for the kind and thoughtful words..the beautiful advices are greatly appreciated..a rainbow to my in-need heart for motivation to go on.. :) honestly,you read my mind..I do feel mentally and physically fatigue and if possible,just want to rest in my place for a day or longer without having to hear or solve anymore bickering or problem from the people...anyway,I will try to help as much as I possibly could... Till then...from the deepest of my heart, thank you.....love for always...

[Elizabeth]

Hi Robert,

Interesting... I'm wondering if you can help, I'm sure you can! I adopted a little girl a few years ago and of course, we don't know her true birth time. She's 2.5 now, is that too young for a reading?

Her stats are: 11-15-2004, born in QianJiang district, Sichuan China. Geographical coordinates are 29° 31' 0" North, 108° 46' 0" East.

How we go about this? Thanks!

[DianatheHuntress]

Cool,Robert! How interesting that you knew Jim.... our "trailblazer" in astro-computations.... that big old NASA computer system he had paved the way for all of us with little or no math sense, lol.....

Just wanted to add that I am in agreement with you, but it's coincidental (serendipitous?) that I have been led to a place where my Chiron line EXACTLY crosses! Being a very Chironic soul, Spirit knew where I needed to land..... I'm home.

With Love, Diana :-} -----*

(Please let me know what you meant when you mysteriously said that there might be a gathering here in Taos soon? Or near the Sangre de Christos? Is the "mothership" going to land at last?).........

[Robert]

Hi Ann - Sure. Even I get fatigued due to the relentless pressure of the world in agony and our "leaders" blindly exploiting that suffering for power and wealth. Remember, if you're not in shape to do a work, then it helps no one. So we MUST learn to take care of ourselves, since when we're on our game then we can take care of others as we would like to. Let those who bicker do so, but out of your earshot. You don't need bickering, but cooperation. If it's not there, then either do what you must while tuning it out, or do it somewhere else, or postpone it until those who bicker cease, at least for awhile. And of course, you're welcome.

Hi Elizabeth - Sure, I can do a Solar chart for your little one, even without an Ascendant. Just email me via the "consultations" link on the left and we'll pick it up from here. Congrats on adopting a global spirit!

Hi Diana - Well, we weren't friends, but it was during the years I used to attend nat'l conventions, where I met and talked with (even got to hang out with!) Marc Jones, Dane Rudhyar, Michele Gauquelin, Ron Davidson, Alexander Ruperti, Jeff Jawer, and a bunch of others on multiple occasions. (I stopped going to conventions due to pretentious elitism on the part of "second tier" astrologers, but that's another story....) As for astrocartography, yes, there is ALWAYS some correlation that we grasp on to, as proof it works! That's the way our minds find a reward for our pursuits. And I'm STILL not going to Siberia, regardless of how great the map assures me that location would be for everything in my life. Something about the Ural and Altai mountains not being close enough to a Trader Joe's! ;-) Now if Tuva would get a franchise... As for NM, well, I'm on the verge of posting something about it. I just need about another week or so.

[DianatheHuntress]

Hi Robert.... yes, Spirit moves in mysterioso ways... will be looking out for the post..... you are leaving L.A. soon? By the end of summer I expect... great! So happy for you and your family.... its time.

Thank you, dear Robert, for all the INSPIRATION, and all that you do for so many of us!

With Love, Diana } -----*

[Robert]

Yes Diana, you've hit upon the news. Will be trying to find the "right" way to announce what I need to. Maybe in the high desert I can again breathe freely and concentrate on important matters to come.

[Jacques]

Hi Robert,

I would like for you to comment on the fact that each zodiac got their name from the fix stars of the background constallation such as Virgo,
libra, Gemini in the background.
We associate the dates with the background constallation and come up with the division dates - Spring Equinox with beginning of Aries sign, Summer solstice with Cancer - way way back.

If you look at the fix star Spica (the spike of a wheat or corn) under Virgo constallation, you will find it associates with sun sign in Libra around mid-October in modern time. How do you address the 27 degrees of discrepances?
Should we ignore the fix star influence of the original creation of the zodiac? or Is it implying that we have a dual charactistics in each one of us Taurus/Aries or Cancer/Gemini, etc.?

Thanks a bunch!

[Robert]

Hi Jacques - Good question. Yes, we MUST ignore the fixed star associations with any attempt to divide reality into 12 steps of unfoldment. The fixed stars have nada to do with the process of human evolution through beginnings, middles, and ends followed by new beginnings. The stars do not make us - we make the meaning around anything in our perceived reality. Some Vedic astrologers attribute between 22 and 28 degrees of separation between the constellations and the zodiacal signs of today. Of course, NONE of the constellations are 30 degrees wide, and all are irregular, including the two not included in the 12 fold system, which are Cetus and Ophiucius.

The word "Zodiac" was derived from the Sanskrit "path." The meaning of the path the Sun takes through the seasons with the changing star backdrops must be adapted throughout the ages, since we are not living the same worldly reality as the ancient Babylonians or Indo-Aryans. Thus we abstract "qualities" and "meaning" from whatever reality we can measure in the NOW rather than cling to whatever was but is no more.

The so-called Fixed Stars may or may not have specific meaning, but they must be seen within the larger integrated wholeness of human experience. Thus we've collectively agreed to have a 12-fold division of the Sun's path through the heavens, regardless of whether we call it Virgo or Libra. Emergence is emergence, whether we call it Gemini or Cancer, and fulfillment is just that, whether we call it Sag or Capricorn or the month of the Rat in the year of the Hare. Since we cannot describe or explore anything without common descriptors, we've agree to call things Taurus, Leo, etc. The qualities are more important than the physical associations in the skies.

[Jacques]

Thanks for your comment on the fixed stars/Constallations from spiritual aspect/path point of view.

It was the late great Wall Street Legend W D Gann's recommended reading list that pointed me to the book "The Witness of the Stars" by E W Bullinger (1893). The book clarified many misunderstandings in names and provided real meanings of fixed stars/constallations from the ancient past. I was particularly interested in the effect of star Pollux conjunction with Sun. The Chaldean astrology website provided "stomach ailments". Two Cancerians, born under Pollux/Gemini star and who I knew well, do have the active stomach trouble. Is there more to the ancient astrology system?

Could the fixed stars really influence physical ailment of a person whereas spiritual aspect connects with coordination of sun sign ( property or characteristics) as you have indicated?

It seems to me, with a open-mind, the fixed stars influence approach is more in line with Oriental/Chinese Astrology/Medicine system since great ancient Chinese doctors almost have to be a great astrologist, not nowadays, to know how "Chi" visits the path/zodiac in human body as planets revolved in the sky just as most of the people "Med"itate yourself into greater spiritual realms. Body and Mind are one.

As for the "month of Hare", the Chinese Hare/Rabit, Monkey, etc., the so-called zodiac signs, are not the same as sun signs as in the western world. These 12 animal signs are more of an added-on to the Year (hardly never associated with month) cycle (but in line with Jupiter 11.9 year-star cycle), just to clarify this to the average readers.

I found Gann's Spiritual/Bible divination connection to "60", 20, 10, larger cycle is a very close fit into oriental "60", 30(Saturn), 20, 10-year Fate/Free Will cycle system where his "discovery" of existing divine magic numbers 7, 11, 5, 3, 9, 12 in the Bible are connected with the human body just the same as heavenly body movement in hidden golden ratio.

I feel there could be a deeper connection between Fixed stars/Constallations with greater Spirituality/Humanity astrology but will take much longer time to link them together. An Not-Before-But-After-the-Event Nostradamus link in Green Language maybe.

Hope you happily "On the Road Again" to your new destination in the near future while some "Imagine" there is a "heaven/haven website" for all the time-keepers and star lovers at the Sacred Altar (Balance/Libra) constallation under the Myan morning star during the waking hour of the Crux!

A. Einstein also said "The problem we have NOW can't be solved at the same current LEVEL".

Thanks for your work in building a spiritual passage toward greater "Global Spirtuality".

[Robert]

Hi Jacques - You raise some interesting points. I used to study and use the "fixed stars" extensively, but got tired of all the negative interpretations associated with so many of them inherited from antiquity. Seems like the vast majority spell various forms of large and small problems, but very few strengths other than "success in battle," "honors and nobility," and other such speculation. Not to disrespect the ancients, but as for stomach ailments, I'll wager that at least a third of all humans have had "stomach ailments" at various recurring points in the life, since it's the first line of defense of the body to respond to disease. I'd place the cause more at lifestyle, environmental factors, and genetic deficiencies than the conjunction with a star. Remember - it is NEVER in the stars, and ALWAYS within us. I do not believe that the planets or stars "cause" anything. There may be correlations with tendencies, but never causation.

That said, I believe some really thorough research should be done on the widest possible set of associations with all the fixed stars, or at least those of magnitude 3 and higher. I even envision that certain assumed traits of the stars directly relate to what degree they happen to occupy, since each degree has it's unique meaning and function within the whole cycle of the zodiac.

Physical ailments are said to be associated with Asc and 6th house areas and rulers. If there are "fixed star" correlations to life on Earth, I would believe it would work more on a solar systemic or even galactic level than a merely human physical level, which is the most dense of our 7 bodies.

Oriental medicine has 5 elements rather than our Western 4, and I am quite familiar with many of its principles. I've worked off and on for many years with a practitioner regarding specifics of how Chi is in motion or not in various physiotypes, both in my own body and in hundreds of his patients. There is much work to be done regarding how the "body electric" works under various astrological conditions, both natal and transit. And of course you're right in that "mind and body are one."

Chinese and Western 12 types may not be exactly parallel, but it's hard to deny the associations when Ox is the 2nd sign in one system, whereas Bull is the 2nd sign in the other. I have studied Chinese astrology for over 30 years, and the months are extremely important in determining many things that we can expect throughout the year, very much along the lines that Vedic practice has sub-sub periods of sub-periods of periods that vary according to specific conditions. Any thorough text on Chinese Astrology goes into detail about how the 12 Chinese animals are associated with the months as well as years.

The Bible has many numerological correspondences with all kinds of things. Reference everything from "the Bible Code" to Joseph Campbell's work. Every other Holy Book in the world does too. And I agree with your statement that "there could be a deeper connection between Fixed stars/Constallations with greater Spirituality/Humanity astrology" since I know that we are galactic beings evolving to galactic consciousness and beyond. The Stars beyond our Solar System are but bright energy sources that show us our own system is not the be-all and end-all to our evolution. You've raised some great points of discussion and exploration. Am not yet "on the road again" (thanks to Saint Willie!) but will be soon. And thanks for your recognition of this work "building a spiritual passage toward greater Global Spirtuality" since that's what my life has been about for over 30 years. My visitors are the best!