Astrology Class - What is the Difference Between our Sun Sign and our Rising Sign, or Ascendant, and Which is Stronger?

by Robert Wilkinson

This question pops up regularly, most recently in a comment stream. When looking at material for the signs, should we read our Sun sign, our Rising sign, our Moon sign, or what? When we read what's happening for each sign, which is more important and less important, the Sun or Ascendant?

The question came from two Scorpio rising people wanting to know which influence is stronger, the Sun or Rising sign? Each are important, but in different ways. As I answered,

A Scorpio Sun is illuminated by Scorpio whatever. A Scorpio rising sees the world through a Scorpio lens. The former is the engine that pulls the train, while the latter is the view of self and therefore one's world. And yes, read BOTH your Sun sign and rising sign in posted material. I've also noted that the sign of the Asc ruler and sometimes even the Moon sign are also relevant, depending on what orientation we have at that time.

The Sun is how we are illuminated and derive power and vitality. The rising sign is the lens of how we see ourself and the world. So the Scorpio lens takes a Sag view of resources, a Cap view of the environment, Aquarian view of the early home life, Pisces view of creativity, and so forth around the wheel.

To elaborate a little, Libra rising has a Scorpio approach to resources and values, a Sag lens on their siblings, a Capricorn view of the early home life, an Aquarian view of children, etc. Leo rising approaches money through the Virgo lens, siblings through a Libra lens, the early life through the Scorpio lens. You can apply this formula to all the signs, regardless of which is on the Ascendant. Learn the order of the signs, and you'll immediately see the connectedness of all the departments of our outer affairs symbolized by the houses.

The self image of the rising sign, our "window to the world," is determined by many things, from what decan it is in to the sign and decan of the planet ruling the Ascendant. This makes Mars of primary importance to anyone with Aries or Scorpio rising, Venus of primary importance to those with Taurus or Libra rising, Mercury important for those with Gemini or Virgo rising, Saturn for those with Capricorn or Aquarius rising, Jupiter for those with Sagittarius or Pisces rising, and the Sun and Moon both of importance for those with Cancer or Leo rising. By studying the signs of the various rulers of our houses, we come to see our inner response to the outer affairs of those houses.

In a somewhat related vein, the sign of two or more planets clustered at the top of the chart shows how others see us since it's what we project to the public, but our inner view of ourself is seen through the lens of the rising sign. Planets at the bottom of our chart shows how we are around the home and our families, but we still see ourselves and our world through the rising sign. We are our Sun sign, focused, filtered, and given flavor through the Moon sign, but how we view outer worldly things is shown by the rising sign.

As for which is "stronger," each of our energies is strong or weak depending on our momentary focus. The crucial thing to keep in mind is that the signs on whatever house are dependent on where their rulers are, whether natally, progressed, or transiting. These form the complex of energies that infuse our approach to the affairs of the houses. We ARE our "planetary lights," which measure how we are proacting or reacting to the life affairs symbolized by the houses.

The natal sign of our rulers shows what we came in with and our natural default way of experiencing that planet. The progressed sign, if different, shows us how we're progressing in the evolution of that way of experiencing. The transits show us the gestalt of what's going on in the moment, and whether that ongoing energy is harmonious, frictional, specializing, or whatever other ways there are of two or more energies relating to each other.

That's why sometimes we're more at ease with circumstances and responses, and other times not. If we are inclined to be Aries or Libra in a certain area, then when that ruler transits through Cancer or Capricorn we will experience cross currents in our ways of dealing with those affairs. It's all part of the enormously complex systems theory that we call Astrology.

© Copyright 2007 Robert Wilkinson

Comments

[Henry]

Thanks Robert!!.

Very clear description.
Is difficult to get a grasp on the relation between MY lens and OTHERS' lenses to the individual.
For example, it's at least curious than when you see life and identify yourself clearly with a Scorpio lens and way of functionig, others see you, given the MidHeaven, as Leo!!!. A sign than is totally non compatible.

So you act inside water-directed, emotional, reflexive, introspective, self-questioning, all-questioning, from ice to action from time to time and going with this to further retorn to ice-reflexion in the "cave"...this last pattern that you describe awesome!!!. It's really a Scorpio Rising pattern!!!. Yes!!!.

And surprisingly others see you as a Fire warm, sunny, happy, self-contented, dignified, shining, active, more or less powerful Leo. Perhaps we can find that through the deep research of the inner lens of Scorpio on what's light and what's darkness you can appear to the public focused on the sunlight you perceived through introspection, leaving shadows apart in the inner "cave".

Yes, really curious process...at least for me works this way...I think.

[Larissa]

Hi Robert, good educational article for me especially. Can you please tell me, knowing my parameters; Aries Sun, Leo rising, Scorpio moon -- what plays the most bedning role in me and my relationships with others? What sets the mode more forcefully - my Scorpio moon or my Leo rising? How come Leos are attracted to me and I am to them? But secretly I would rather share thoughts with Scoprios rather than Leos or Aries? Whys is that? Thank you.

[Sue]

Hi Robert,
What an interesting article. Like Henry I have Scorpio rising and can identity if with his musings. Although I see myself as functioning through a Scorpio lens I have been made aware many times that others see me as a sunny confident Leo. Odd.

My question is - How relevant are Sabian symbols to the degree on the Ascendant. I have Scorpio rising at 11 degrees in my natal chart. The reading for this degree seems very negative and I don't really understand it. It's true I do sometimes feel I am drowning in emotional panic as regards the external world but I try to keep a lid on it and mostly that works. Does the degree on my ascendant really mean I'm always going to be a complete basket case on some level or is there a way out? Thanks once again for your terrific blog.

[saturn's daughter]

"the enormously complex systems theory that we call Astrology."

right on! thanks so much for this article. i have been really wondering about the relationship between the two lately. i am still a little unclear on reading the solar forecast vs the ascendant forecast though. let's take the upcoming new moon, for example. according to the solar forecast, it is going to hit in my 11th house (i'm a capricorn) but according to the ascendant forecast, it is going to hit in my 3rd house. (and actually, because my ascendant is 21 degrees virgo, the new moon will fall into my 2nd house, so sometimes i read the libra forecast since 21 degrees of my 1st house fall into that sign).

so the question is will this new moon influence both my 2nd (ascendant) and 11th (solar) houses or will it have more force in one or the other?

this leads to another question about cusps and sign rulers over houses in my natal chart. i guess most everybody's houses fall under multiple signs, and i have read that we should look to the sign on the cusp of that house to determine the true ruler of that house... in the cases where the sign on the cusp is in late degrees and most of the house falls under the next sign, how do we interpret that?

as i mentioned above, my 1st house is 9 degrees virgo and 21 libra. similarly, my 7th house is 9 degrees pisces and 21 degrees aries. so is my personality still "ruled" by virgo or am i expressing libran tendencies, perhaps even moreso than the virgo? likewise, is my partnership approach dominant pisces even though there is more aries in that house (not to mention jupiter in aries at the end of that house)...

hope i haven't confused you :) thanks again for raising the issue. you must be psychic or something lol

[Lori]

Hi Robert,

I am a Virgo/Libra cusp for my sun (9/21) and a Scorpio Rising. My Moon is in Leo.

You shared: We are our Sun sign, focused, filtered, and given flavor through the Moon sign, but how we view outer worldly things is shown by the rising sign.

You said: This makes Mars of primary importance to anyone with Aries or Scorpio rising. I'm glad my Mars is natally in good aspect. My natal mars is in Virgo.

You Said: So the Scorpio lens takes a Sag view of resources, a Cap view of the environment, Aquarian view of the early home life, Pisces view of creativity, and so forth around the wheel.

That would make sense with the Sag view of resources, my parents in the local environment growing up were very hard working (Capricorn) ... - my older brother of whom I didn't get along with well as a child, growing up was Aquarius. In fact Aquarius sun sign people (for some reason the 1st two weeks of February) over time have presented the greatest historical relationship challenges to me.

I've had some Aquarius co workers Born in the 1st two weeks of February who have been difficult to deal with ... I'm a fan of working together in peace with my Jupiter and Libra. These individuals have chosen to be chronically negative which was a drain to me. No offense meant to Aquarius sun signs!! I just don't seem to do well with them.

My creativity is very Pisces (and being a natural medium since child hood) ... it makes sense. I've always been more artistic and intuitive/creative than I have been mathematical/scientific. I've been an artist all my life.

Also, a question - is the descendent the opposite of the ascendent? My descendant is in Taurus, but that's all I know. If my Scorpio Rising is how I see my outer world (through that lens) ... would the Taurus descendent be how I view my inner lens? I don't know so I ask.

Thanks,
Lori

[Robert]

Hi Henry - They may or may not see someone as a Leo, but Scorpio aspires to project Leo in its public life. In your case, people see PLANETS expressed through signs, not just signs. They wouldn't see you as a Leo if you didn't have at least one planet in that sign at the top of your chart. BTW - Though some signs seem antagonistic to each other, really they all serve as checks and balances within a larger holistic system, so in truth once we integrate the energies no sign is ever that disharmonious with the other signs.

Hi Larissa - All your energies are important in various ways. It depends on which planet you're most identified with in any given moment. If you're being needy, you'll be most attracted to Scorpio. If you're being illuminating, you'll attract Aries/Libra energies. Venus is what we like and are attracted to, so when longing for romance, you'll be most into the sign of your Venus. Sun in Leo is attracted to you because you resonate with what illuminates them. You'd rather share feelings with Scorpio than thoughts.

Hi Sue - As I explained to Henry, you aspire to Leo, though it takes a planet there, either natally, progressed, or transiting, for others to note that in you. The Sabian symbols are of utmost importance in a variety of ways. First, to explain to those who aren't familiar with how they are determined, if your Asc is 10 degrees and change, then the symbol is 11. If 11 degrees and change, then read 12. 11 is a degree of humanitarianism, one who can retrieve others who have ventured "beyond their limit," however that is defined. Rudhyar's Mandala degree meanings are reinterpretations, not the original associations. In "the Astrology of Personality" where he uses the original Dr. Jones' class notes on the symbols, 11 Scorpio is said to be "Outreaching warmth of human character, Saving power of social restraint for too emotional souls, and Humanitarian ideals." None of the meanings associated with this symbol sound negative to me. Dr. Jones says its keyword is Safety, and when positive, "the inherent courage which constitutes a protection from the vicissitudes of life." And of course, you're welcome.

Hi saturn's daughter - Read both natal and solar chart positions. One is relative to your self image, the other to your illumination. It's not about "more force." It's about having multiple departments of influence. As for multiple signs, the sign on the cusp is our bias in that house. We will always have at least two sign influences in each house, unless we have exactly 1 degree of whatever on the cusp. The sign on the cusp is how we approach those life affairs. The other sign is buried, but influential when planets transit that house and the two signs of the house. In your case, you ARE a Virgo rising with the lens on life that sign inclines toward. When something is in Libra, it stimulates that energy, but it does not "rule" the house. In your 7th house, Jupiter in that house is dominant in terms of influence. Pisces is how you view partners, and describes a general influence, but Jupiter rules Pisces and is in Aries, so Aries becomes the dominant force. If your Jupiter were in Pisces, that would be the dominant force. The ruler of the sign on a cusp is in many ways far more influential than the sign.

Hi Lori - The oldest sibling is shown by the 3rd house, the second sibling by the 5th, the parents by the 4th and 10th. Look to the rulers of these houses to know more. Aquarius is challenging to your Moon, and tend to put the brakes on your Scorpio. Most Aquarians aren't negative, just fixed in their purpose and very detached from what others think. The Dsc is opposite to the Asc. The houses are not the inner nature - that's the planets. Taurus on the 7th shows you're naturally attracted to that energy when doing the "I-Thou" dance. Look at the 7th as the "balance wheel" to the first house, and remember that in Astrology, each sign exteriorizes through its opposite pole, and is grounded in the lower square sign, and aspires to flower as the upper sign square.

[Popplagid]

Aquarius view of the world, pisces aries view of resources, aries view of enviroment.... how would you called the 12th house
A capricorn view on karma or self-transcendence?

And in my case, I am a sagittarius sun very closely conjunt with neptune, and with a rising in the border between aquarius and pisces. I assume somewhere between 27º aqu and 1º pis, considering the effects of older transits through the rising, mc and 7th house cusp.
It is very dificult for me to determine whether I am a aquarius or a pisces rising. My birth was a dificult slow one, with breathing problems, which even furthers that dillema. And since I have that neptunian sun my sense of discernement in somewhat diffuse. Furthermore, my sun is 11th house cusp which makes things complex.

My north node is also, confusingly and as a funny note, between 11th and 12th houses!!!

[Lori]

Hi Robert,

I'm such an amateur with Astrology but always learning. Thank you so much for being there I am grateful! I've always liked it because it makes such sense of things. Understanding is empowerment.

My older brother (the 1st born of 4) ... is an Aquarius born within the 1st 2 weeks of February zone that I've so often had relationship challenges with ... that would make sense as I have been told that I have Aquarius on my 3rd house cusp.

Maybe it is my Scorpio rising ... & I'm very honest and out there ... and chronic emotional unavailability is hard for me to be around in a relationship.

With Jupiter in Libra I've so often tried to get along, communicate, negotiate, comprimise etc while thinking of my own needs as well.

The ex once looked at my chart and said "You need partnership like you need a hole in the head". Well I have a people person side to me (social) and am happy in the company of others ... but I can also be happy in my own company as well, pulling back into my shell with only myself. (the social vs the introspective). My needs vs others. I can find positive attributes to my solitude.

In the professional sector at least 3 co workers that I've had, had bi polar challenges and I found myself in the "counselor" mode ... by the time each of them (all born in the 1st 2 weeks of February) were eventually laid off I remember how drained I was. This is part of the Feb 1-15 Aquarius connection. It's always been part of my path to understand myself vs others.

I also had a Taurus co worker who fit into that (the bi polar challenges) and she was laid off after 18 months. She may have had Aquarius in her chart, I don't know.

I remember how drained I was, after sitting next to her all that time. I did my best to be a friend to her though ... more like a listener/counselor.

My descendent is in Taurus also. My mom was a Taurus and in my view (even in spirit) earth's and now spirit's most beautiful woman. My Dad who is a Cancer, has Taurus in his chart as well ... so there is the Taurus connection.

Aquarius is challenging to your Moon, and tend to put the brakes on your Scorpio.

This makes total sense because I seem to have challenges in relationships with Aquarius - especially those born between the 1st and 15th of February. Emotional connection (the moon) - availability/honesty matters to me. I tend to be very emotionally honest and open. I have a hard time with folks who are chronically emotionally unavailable. Maybe because I experienced so much of that growing up.

Even in my last position, I had a co worker born into that Feb 1-15 zone & the same pattern ... constantly whining, complaining, verbally abusive etc. I remained professional but it drained me being around her energy. I like to be positive and professional at work ... the team thing. I like to work in peace with others (Jupiter in Libra) not the opposite.

Most Aquarians aren't negative, just fixed in their purpose and very detached from what others think. The Dsc is opposite to the Asc. The houses are not the inner nature - that's the planets. Taurus on the 7th shows you're naturally attracted to that energy when doing the "I-Thou" dance.

This seems to be very true. Maybe that's why the ex and I after 22 years ... stayed in the relationship much longer than we should have.

That makes sense as well. Mom was a Taurus (5/18) - in my view the most beautiful woman to have walked the earth and now spirit. Dad is a Cancer (6/27) with Taurus in his chart. The ex who was a Libra also had Taurus in his chart. (9/29). My parents were always hard working and good at investing ... something I wish I'd learned more of as a kid ... but even at age 50, it's never too late.

Look at the 7th as the "balance wheel" to the first house, and remember that in Astrology, each sign exteriorizes through its opposite pole, and is grounded in the lower square sign, and aspires to flower as the upper sign square.

I have so much to learn Astrologically. It's funny because for so many past lives and this one (I came in this way) the gifts of the medium are so natural to me (like breathing - yawn - doesn't faze me most of the time) that it is almost like falling off a log. I've used those gifts to help and uplift others. Maybe that is the Pisces too that is opposite of my Virgo/Libra cusp.

There's so much that I don't know Astrologically though. Even after being married to one for 22 years - still so much that I don't know. It has always fascinated me though because it makes sense.

The only problem that I had was when he didn't use his gifts professionally as much as I felt he could and instead used it to run the charts of other women (looking for compatabilities between his chart and theirs) and proceeded to cheat.

As I've said - As an Astrologer he was 1st grade and you are a Ph.d. BIG Difference.

Thanks teacher!! That's a compliment!!

Blessings,
Lori

[Robert]

Hi Lori - Please email me via the link on the left.

[Lori]

Hi Robert,

Just sharing.

That makes sense, I have mars in Virgo so my energy would be attracted to a man with Virgo somewhere in the chart? I have Mercury in Virgo as well. The ex, a Libra sun had Venus in Virgo with Jupiter in Cancer and I am a Virgo/Libra cusp with Venus in Scorpio and Jupiter in Libra. So he had a Virgo in his life.

I know there are many good things to say of Libra ... but in my case it often wasn't.

The most problematic was the moon square ... we didn't have good energy between our moons (myself Leo moon) and I always felt the emotional connection to be lacking. 9/21/57 and 9/29/42. I wanted openness, emotional connection and honesty ... that wasn't a priority to him.

I am also a fire rooster and he a water horse. Water can do one of two things - either extinguish the fire or create steam. Or, maybe he felt that the rooster symbolically rode too much (symbolically crowing) on his back? Like a rooster who sits on a horse's back? He was very emotionally suppressed ... I, the opposite.

I think too (long story short many times over) ... being married to a medium ... everytime he tried to get away with things, not telling me the truth - which was often - I would find out. Spirit would often come in the dream state and tell me. I often intuitively knew things. When you have enough dreams of the spouse cheating you have to listen. (and he was).

The 1st husband in the early 80's cheated also ... and I used to have those same dreams with him.

Next relationship needs to have more mutual likenesses and emotional compatability than opposites.

Also ironically, I have to tell you this ... the 11 years we lived in the mountains ... we lived at the corner of Hurty and Joy. That's Hurt y Joy or hurt and joy. We lived at the corner of hurt and joy. Last weekend I was also discarding old photos and looked at a picture of the old house ... in the woods on a dirt road with 4 houses (no through road) and I noticed out in front of the house right exactly on the corner between Hurty and Joy - a big yellow county sign that I'd forgotten about that said "Dead end". In other words the road (Joy St) was not a through road.

I can laugh about that now ... can you imagine living at the corner of hurt and joy and a sign on the corner right between the two that says "Dead End"? How ironic is life.

It was time for the end.

Other than that the mountain property was drop dead (LOL oops there is that word again) gorgeous ... on the market it sold in one day. Talk about a feeling of park like retreat in the forest. On the market one day and under contract the next at full asking price.

Anyway .... it's all water under the bridge and lessons learned. :)

I was just thinking of the ironies. Sometimes hindsight is 20/20.

Lori

[Sue]

Hi Robert, as always you shed some light. I was reading the Rudyar's interpretation on 11 degrees Scorpio but did not understand it. I though it meant that being my ascendant degree it would mean I was the one who needed retrieving. Thanks for putting my straight. That explains why I'm always getting into weird conversations with junkies and such like at bus stops and helping them find some light in their personal life. I thought that happened to everyone.

[Larissa]

Robert, thank you. So in longing for romance.. How's my Venus in Taurus is with Venus in Libra? He is Scorpio sun. This Scorpio sun man seems to be attracted to me.

[Robert]

Hi Popplagid - Cap 12th house takes responsibility when it might not be the best thing to do, works when they should be meditating, but can be very organized when it comes to achieving closure. Pisces rising has full and deep eyes. Aquarius rising usually has a prominent and angular jawline.

Hi Sue - Well, you probably have "gone beyond your depth" at times, since degree symbols work inwardly and outwardly.

Hi Larissa - Venus in Taurus and Libra are equally strong, but these signs are not necessarily in harmony with each other, since they are naturally in quincunx. But there is more to all this than just how our Venuses get along.

[Popplagid]

Cap 12th house. That makes tremendous sense
I have aquarius Venus there as well.

Indeed, a few months ago I was thinking quiting my job (a doctorate) to go living more in the nature.
But the weight of responsability, coupled with fate putting me under strain and obstacles, I regained forces and continue.
Indeed I should be meditating instead of working.

I hope for one year to finish this project and then make a my big shift
Jupiter goes to my 12house end of next year
My 5-6house north node in cancer calls for my emotional enjoyment, having children and living a simplier life. What is the difference between a 5 or 6th house north node?

Txs for distinguishing my risings. I am in fact aquarius rising

[Henry]

Hi Lori.

I've read all your writings here and I feel very identified with some comment you've done about your Scorpio -mine too- Rising.

We can feel enormously happy enjoying our solitude, and making of this a productive state of conscience. We know how to fill the solitude with richness.

At the same time, we can enjoy the others' company, but being Leo there possibly we select well when and where to appear with a powerful impact, filled with the richnesses amounted in solitude and introspection.

And I think we are well with relationships that allow us the necessary freedom for us to go on through our misterious unique path (it's not that really), thus better say "love of introspection and solitude" on a daily basis.

So for that, what we can do worst is -I think- try to enter a relationship with a very Fire/Air oriented individual that doesn't understand our longing for our inner world to be cared for daily. When they allow us to do so, we can be wonderful partners...but with the right company. We can not kill our apparent "ice-cold-periods" that are "self-searching periods" in truth. And these are dramatically necessary with Scorpio Rising!.

Blessings.

PD: Perhaps here my North Node Scorpio in 12th plays his part...anyway, we can have a wonderful partnership (ruled by Venus). That's my spontaneous opinion when reading you.

[Lori]

Hi Henry!

Thanks for your kindness, wisdom and insight in this, I appreciate that ~ and you described my Scorpio Rising so well. :)

Blessings & Light,
Lori

[Sue]

Hi Robert,
Yes I have been out of my depth more than once - learning how to tread water is an on-going life lesson.

Hi Henry,
Like Lori I feel you've described Scorpio rising really well. Thanks for sharing your insights.

For me the need for introspection on a daily basis also applies to career. I much prefer to be left alone to get on with jobs in my own way.

Cheers
Sue

[Henry]

Hi Lori. Thanks and blessings anew.

Hi Sue. Yes, I am totally identified with your "work for yourself and by yourself" principle, when it's possible to get it, we give the best of ourselves. Cheers.

[jin]

Dear Henry,

I just came across this article, and I was just wondering...
so my rising sign's in scorpio, which means my natal mars is important; my mars is in scorpio.
well, i looked up my information in a chart, and it says,
mars scorpio 29°39'03 in house 1 direct
and my ascendant is
Ascendant Scorpio 13°35'38
so does that mean i think and view the world through scorpio lens?
but then i have mercury and sun in aquarius, so what can that mean?

[Robert]

Hi jin - Yes. And the transits of Mars are very important in precipitating changes in your self image. We view the world of affairs through our rising sign lens. We ARE the planetary lights. You are an angel and idealistic world server, brilliant and able to put together a whole lot of info into a bigger picture. Because Aquarius is "lower square" Scorpio, sometimes your idealism is at odds with Scorpio rising's need for a power struggle. I would suggest be more pleasant, calm, loving, noble, playful, and keep things simple when you most want to make them complex, and relax when you most want to challenge. Your light and mind will anchor and stabilize the higher manifestations of Scorpio, which could help you to major forms of self-transcendence this lifetime when you learn how to manage the pressure with detachment, dispassion, and take none of it personally.