An Old Retired Guy Who Speaks the Truth About Election 2008 and Republican Trolls in A WaPo Comment Stream

by Robert Wilkinson

I found this to be high theater. From my days as a (fairly) nationally respected bipartisan political blogger - read: deals with real issues, i.e., environmental, social, global... - I learned there are things called "trolls." These are beings on the internet who watch for the chance to deny, denigrate, mock. or hector those who further any progressive agenda at all. Knee-jerk "libruls" are a different thang altogether. In a Washington Post comment stream I found an amazing piece of wisdom. It was written by someone who sounds like one or both of my elderly parents, both of whom do not like Bush, what's happening to our country, or any of the posturing bloviating windbags in government today with a few exceptions. This cuts to the core of what's up for America.

Background: this came after a bunch of Republicans had been mocking and denigrating Obama and insisting that McCain and Palin were the second coming for America. These trolls were getting very nasty and saying things that were at best stupid, at worst extraordinarily insulting, to anyone who had anything good to say about Obama. If you doubt how ugly things got, please go to the original stream if you want, but I find them tedious for the most part. Still, this brief response was one of the most direct things said in the entire thread.

From "Toritto," a piece of wisdom from the 30s generation via The Trail, A Daily Diary of Campaign 2008: This is a guy who got pushed by a few Republican trolls who didn't have the age, experience, or integrity to address ANYTHING this guy said before or after he posted this.

I'm an old retired guy who doesn’t have to work and I can honestly say it won't matter to me in the long run who wins this election. At my age any election I participate in could be my last. I do believe however that the current administration has been the worst in my lifetime (born during FDR). I don't think anyone can rationally deny that. We have had 8 years of corruption, unnecessary war and shredding of the Constitution. Over the weekend we reached we suffered the worst economic meltdown since 1929. Now this party wants us to give them 4 more years so that John the "maverick" and St. Sarah of the Snows can fix Washington. ...like I was born yesterday.

If "small town working class" rust-belt voters in Ohio, Pa., Michigan and Indiana help re-elect the GOP then I for one don't want to hear anymore whining from them about their disappearing jobs and livelihoods, the high cost of college and gas, lack of health care etc. Let Johnnie's "patriotism" put food on your table. Go flip burghers!

Screw 'ya. Cling to your guns and religion. Pray to Jesus when you go hunting for a meal. Stay with that church and keep your weapon. You will need both the soup kitchen and the rifle. You will deserve what you get.

I got mine already. I live comfortably in the sunny South on a golf course, got my steady income, my "socialist" medicare and prescription drug coverage that you younger people wish you had but will never get under the Republicans. I sent my girls to college and they are successfully out on their own. The world won't run out of gas before I go and the planet won't get too hot.

A McCain election ain't gonna hurt me! As Johnny Carson used to say - I upped my lifestyle - up yours!

God helps those who help themselves - if you're in deep doodoo economically and you vote Republican for their "values", you deserve it.

Posted by: toritto | September 24, 2008 10:16 AM

This is not a selfish being. This is someone who addresses the selfish in the only terms and concepts they'll ever understand. Go Toritto!

Copyright © 2008 Robert Wilkinson

Comments

[Sue Moon]

I love those "old soldiers", they remind me of my Dad, long dead. One of a kind men, who speak the truth and live by their ideals, which are full of integrity and honor. The last of a dying breed, I am afraid.

[s]

This is why I look forward to growing old. I'm relatively young, but I respect the wisdom that has come in my short-ish lifetime and I have lots of memories being in the company of very old folk. Because of this, I'm cautious about the opinions of those without the age or the experience to show a little modesty and/or grace.

Reminds me of the story in the bible of the adulterous woman (a set-up job, if ever there was one...): When Christ challenged their intentions, the old men got the message and were the first to drop their stones and leave the scene; the young men stubbornly held onto their self-rightousness and were the last to give up the fight.

[J. Sue]

I loved this article; I e-mailed it to all my family members and can't wait until my world war II veteran husband and my retired air force son reads it. They weekly give me a lecture about voting Republican like I'm going to hades if I don't.

I can relate to most of what "Toritto" says concerning the fact that my husband and I 'got' ours too, however when I'm voting I'm concerned for my children and their chilren and thier children...Toritto doesn't mention that concern. I wish he would have although that probably would have taken out a bit of the sting.

[Robert]

Hi all - This is for any Republicans who get this far. My father is a WWII "hero" of "the greatest generation." Purple Heart, Bronze Star, Battle of the Bulge, Bridge at Remagen, and much more. He used to be an Eisenhower/Nixon/Ford Repub, but now loathes the Republicans for ruining the country. He's certainly no liberal. Having done the first half of his career in business and industry on a management level, he's been a Business Professor at many respected Universities in the US and abroad for the past 35 years. Having "gotten his," he's worried sick at what the fiscal corruption and mismanagement of the Republican Party are leaving for us, his children, as well as his grandchildren. Both he and my mom believe that the 2 Bushes destroyed the economy for a long, long time to come, and that Republican Party no longer believes in fiscal responsibility or investing in the US. Also that under Republicans our nation has become a true threat to global peace and prosperity, especially with McCain/Palin.

So far, John McCain has shown us he's an angry old man, snide, mocking, derisive of anyone that doesn't agree with him, and doesn't have a clue about what's to be done to fix our economy and heal the very real divisions nurtured by the Neocons through "chaotic radicalism." (Look it up if you don't know its historical importance.) Given the Repubs have owned all 3 branches of government for most of the past 8 years, anyone who wants more of the same is either not paying attention to the serious destruction of our rule of law, our civil rights, or our economy and environment, doesn't care about suffering humanity, or is too prejudiced to be objective. I'm tired of the rest of the world believing we're the most dangerous nation on Earth, and I'm tired of the Repubs putting their Wall Street cronies ahead of the Americans who are losing their homes, pensions, and cannot afford health care, education, heating oil, or gasoline. There are ways to begin healing and fixing America, but not under John McCain and Sarah Palin.

[J. Sue]

Robert,

When you're right, you're right. I agree with you.

Thank you for that blog; it truly made sense to me and I'm going to send it off to the guys. I'm not really good at debating with them, but can I use you? ;o)

I get the same thing Barack got from McCain when I express my opionion, "you just don't understand!"

[Pepper]

I think the retired chap's insights are spot on. Clearly this upcoming election is a Saturn vs. Uranus one. There are those rooting for McCain (Saturn/status quo) and those will will pulling for Obama (Uranus/change).

I am so alarmed by the numbers of individuals I encounter in my world who aren't involved in the process on any level???

It is time for our nation/people to make better, mature choices.

[Mary]

I am afraid there are too many republicans in democrat costumes and too many democrats in republican dress. We won't ever know how far back the stockmarket fiasco started but I would bet it would be the same stunt that pulled off the 29 crash, which was speculators inventing stock and money that did not exist and selling it to investors who donot exist and then pulling the strings everytime it looked good for the country. There are more terrorists in America than in all the other countries combined and the legislation from the income tax laws to the how much you can water your lawn is designed to hold every American hostage until she is reduced to 3rd world status economically and politically. America is not dangerous to anyone but itself.

[Matt]

Amen! This should be plastered just about everywhere. It is a brilliant, if not quintessential, articulation of the consequence of people who continue to vote for people based on a divisive social agenda - and seemingly do not factor in that the government policy, in fact, has most impact on wealth levels.

Here's to Pluto in Capricorn cleaning up house!

[Valerie]

Dear Robert,

This blog sizzles, the smoke is coming out the top of my screen. Excellent comment from Mr. Toritto, I'm not as old as he is but I totally agree. And thanks to everyone else for your remarks, and Pepper you are right on about the Saturn vs. Uranus election. And yes Matt, Pluto is coming into Cap. to clean house, I've been counting on it.

As a debutante voter I was once a Republican but found out early I was being sold a bill of goods. You're not kidding about the Bushes, I had a bad feeling about both of them, and now we have Cheney and big oil behind Dubbya. I just hope we aren't headed for another great Depression. God save America.

[Lisa]

This morning, before going to work, I did something I normally don't ever do, which is to ask the I-Ching how I should proceed to have a good day at work and in my life, and I got #4 Youthful Folly with 9 at the top.
When reading the judgment for Youthful Folly, I realized it was more about the country as a whole rather than me, personally. I feel like the I-Ching gave me a message to pass on to everyone since, the future effected by the bailout issue has been weighing heavily not only on my mind, but everyone’s mind this week.

I was astounded at how coincidental the message of the Youthful Folly, and particularly the 9 at the top of the hexagram, fits our current economic situation.

It says the following for 9 at the top:
(Pay special attention to the last paragraph concerning Governmental interference of protecting the public security)

“In punishing folly
It does not further one
To commit transgressions.
The only thing that furthers
Is to prevent transgressions.”

“Sometimes an incorrigible fool must be punished. He who will not heed will
be made to feel. This punishment is quite different from a preliminary
shaking up. But the penalty should not be imposed in anger; it must be
restricted to an objective guarding against unjustified excesses. Punishment
is never an end in itself but serves merely to restore order.

This applies not only in regard to education but also in regard to the
measures taken by a government against a populace guilty of transgressions.
Governmental interference should always be merely preventive and should
have as its sole aim the establishment of public security and peace.”

What’s your take on the judgement, Robert?

[Robert]

Hi Sue - Been reading about so much corruption, obfuscation, and outright lies connected with the dying desperate ones that I'm up to my eyeballs. In a nutshell, the "bailout" is a useless gesture, throwing good money after bad, and McCain/Palin have no original ideas between them. She cannot name ONE Supreme Court decision other than Roe v Wade. Not even Dredd Scott. But she is for states determining things. Like Dredd Scott. I always want to ask "originalists" (like Palin, Scalia and Thomas) if they REALLY believe that blacks are only 3/5 of a person. And that states should be able to trump the Federal Union on things like slavery. (And now you know why I am not politically blogging any more....) Republicans would sell the country down for a buck if they'd get to see Gidget and the Geezer on the tube every night being sassy, cute, and intense. Looking forward to seeing you in about a week.

Hi Pepper - Yes, he does sound like a few I know from that generation. Saturn v Uranus for sure! Apart from the obvious opposition between progressives seeking a sustainable world and crystaline leaden slaves to others working for them, I see that one as the negative opposition, whereas on a higher level the opposition shows the surfacing of the specific useful structures (Saturn/Virgo) of the ongoing subtle long wave revolution as it moves from the end of the old cycle (Pisces) toward an entirely new future (Aries). And many around the world are positioning themselves, and finding alliances, that are the web for the future connectedness.

Hi Mary - I agree there is only one party, the Demopublican Republicrats, a.k.a. the money party. Welcome to the Wall Street giveaway. 1929 was primitive compared to the massive fraudulent illusion of "derivatives." The greedy just never know when to stop, and despite the best efforts of Dennis Kucinich and those who stand for the people, I'm sure there are enough greedy fearful politicians who will vote to sell out the taxpayers to an extent unknown in history.

Hi Matt - It seems that the entire world is at stake, and the money changers just don't know when enough is enough.

Hi Valerie - Well, my dad was once a staunch Repub, and is appalled at what's become of the so-called "conservative" party, which has expanded the bureaucracy (especially the police state!), increased the debt, and eroded Constitutional rights to a degree unknown in the history of the nation. This bailout, along with AIG and the others, represents the beginning of the end. We've sliding into a greater depression than this country has ever known, thanks to Bush, the Republicans, and the quaint notion that deregulation was ever good for anything other than a license for the greedy to loot everything while accepting responsibility for nothing, especially the damage done to individuals.

Hi Lisa - The I Ching is an amazing friend. Truly, what is occurring in the US and globally is the "youthful folly" of humanity. An alternative translation is "Inexperience," as well as "Uncultivated Growth," which also applies. Did you actually get only a moving top line, or are you just commenting on that general statement? The statement after the Wilhelm/Baynes part is suggestive of an aphorism attributed to either Thomas Jefferson or Thomas Paine — “That government is best which governs least.” That comment on the sixth line is an interesting one, and I did find that particular version. Will investigate more.

[Jenni]

Bailout or no bailout, economic power has shifted (back) to the Far East for the foreseeable future. America now needs to focus--immediately--on providing jobs, education, health care and a FUTURE for ALL it's citizens. Toritto expresses a wisdom he's lived long enough to acquire. The rest of us had better keep working consciously on the acquisition of wisdom. It's time for humanism to replace scientific materialism...NOW. Vote Obama, make it happen!

[Lisa]

Yes, Robert. I really did receive 9 at the top when I received Youthful Folly when I did an I Ching for myself on Tuesday. The 9 at the top is what caught my eye and made me think of our government as it discusses it in that particular line! I thought I would share it with whomever believes in the wise truth of the I Ching, and how the message was intended for the masses rather than just me personally even though I had asked I Ching how I should proceed to have a good day at work and in my life that particular day. Just found it very interesting. Thanks for your interpretation of Youthful Folly!

[Lisa]

Robert,

By the way, I also received 6 at the beginning the other day for Youthfull Folly. This was in addition to 9 at the top. I didn't think the six at the beginning was as significan to our current economic crisis as the 9 at the top, but maybe it fits too.

Six at the beginning means:
To make a fool develop It furthers one to apply discipline.
The fetters should be removed.To go on in this way bring humiliation.

[Robert]

Hi Jenni - Yes, the bailout will not help us regain our equilibrium, but only reward the bad behavior of the con men who believe in speculating in worthless paper. We do need to invest in people rather than paper.

Hi Lisa - The I Ching contains universal wisdom that can be applied on all kinds of levels. So any line, image, or judgment can be applied to almost any situation. Both lines can apply to our national circumstance. Of note is that with those moving lines, it turns into 19, "Approach," which is both good news and bad news if we apply it to the national condition. It would seem that inactivity is not an option, nor is allowing the inexperienced to go on without some form of discipline. This applies to Wall Street greedheads as well as the Republican ticket, which is the essence of inexperience, given McCain's admission he knows little or nothing about economics. And Palin's a joke.