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Hm..trying to figure out how this plays out in the 12th house (and conjunct the ascendant). "Spontaneous adaptability and an unswerving and instinctive fidelity to ultimate goals and meanings" focused through the collective unconscious? or universal truths? or through experiences of confinement and hidden workings? The 12th house is so hard to articulate!

jo garceau

And of course with Uranus in Aries squaring Pluto in Capricorn, the conjunction of the sign rulers (Mars and Saturn) in Libra suggests a resolution of some kind for the Uranus Pluto squares. For example, initiative and drive combined with grounding...or on the other end of the spectrum, repression of the renewal. I'm voting for the former.

Robert, thanks for this post.

I'm also watching the moon squaring the Mars Saturn conjunction in a few hours, wondering if an unstoppable force is meeting an unmoveable object.

Naomi Bennett

I was goggling Carl Payne Tobey and found your site. I didn't know you studied with him, like I did in the 1970. Do you still use the Equal House System or what? What do you think of Pluto as the ruler of Aries vs. Scorpio? Carl dropped progressions after testing them for years and only used transits. Any you??? Naomi Bennett


Hi shakti - Start with this article on the twelfth house and follow the breadcrumbs through the various linked articles. Enjoy!

Hi jo - Yes, it's a new era for the Uranus square Pluto energy. This Lunar square is culminating, and will release a lot of energy into us using our imagination to reclaim a "lost opportunity." We're all on a curious sort of probation, and need to learn to enjoy our journey up the mountain on our "pilgrimage."

Hi Naomi - I was a student of Carl and Grant's books in the early 70s, and became Carl's good friend in the mid through late 70s since he lived in San Antonio which was just down the road from where I lived. By then it was more us sharing insights with each other with a few of my students in tow enjoying the hang time. As for house systems, I have written articles about how I actually use 3 house systems simultaneously that create overlapping zones where the different house functions interact with each other. It's akin to the concept of a fretless guitar neck.

I have totally embraced Carl's conception of Pluto as the ruler of Aries, and furthermore, TransPluto as the ruler of Taurus. That said, it's not that simple, since I went on to see how there are both worldly and spiritual rulers of the signs, with the worldly rulers dominating affairs in the material world and spiritual rulers dominating affairs in the spiritual world relative to the different sign functions. In my view, both Mars and Pluto rule Aries and Scorpio. Jupiter and Neptune rule both Sagittarius and Pisces, and so on. As an aside, I've also done extensive research on the Leo Clockwise system, and found a key that not even Carl was aware of. We spoke of that toward the end of his life and he was intrigued by my findings. I had originally come to the Clockwise chart through finding ancient zodiacs and references in the Secret Doctrine by HPB about it. Then I read Carl's work and the connect became solid.

I still use progressions, since I believe they are a symbolic mathematical measuring stick (as per the writings of Rudhyar and Jones, both of whom I also had the pleasure of meeting several times in the late 70s) for the evolution and modification of the inner nature. I have found that transits are entirely of an external nature, describing the external events that we confront so that we can make decisions that affect our character then and into the future. Transits show the gestalt through which we confront external experiences, while secondary progressions show more the inner evolution of our natal functions.

I believe you are the person who kept his classes going for a long time. Is that a correct remembrance? If so, please email me via the link on the left side of the page. Carl was a dear friend and one of the great astrologers of all time. He had/has my utmost respect and admiration.


Dear Robert, I read your 12th House writings a while ago and thought I knew what you covered in them, but just found that elves have come and re-written them with all manner of insights I managed to miss the first time! Thank you for your depth on the topic, and for bringing my attention there again. Your comments to readers after those articles are as instructive as the articles themselves. There is so much to meditate on. With Saturn going through my occupied 12th house for the last few years I have been so drenched in 12th house currents that it has been challenging to find enough distance to reflect on them. But I can sure feel my psyche being reassembled brick by brick. I appreciated your enumerations of the more subtle ways of self-undoing- really important reminders for me there right now. Thank you thank you, brother. Namaste!


Dear Robert, I try not to ask you too many questions, but in this case...
The conjunction takes part in my 9th house (the last one in my 8th) and, that's what makes me ask, coz it looks scary to me: it happens just on top of my South Node. Argh.
Can I ask you for some hints, advice, info?


Hi Robert; i have continued to enjoy your articles over the past several months and have been prompted to ask you about this one particularly as the Mars/Saturn conjunction occurred 2 years ago (as it did for my ex partner), in my 5th house and frankly, it was diabolical!
My question is; what are some of the possibilities that may arise from this conjunction happening in the 6th house, as it does for me this time?
much thanks


I remember that summer. The summer of 2010. It was my intro to ptsd. It was the day after the wiki leaks story broke and the afghan vet went crazy on me in class. It was realization of my own ptsd.

And today I mourn the "stupid child", the "dumb looking child", frozen in space,not knowing what to do as she was pushed and coerced to act in behalf or, or against someone else, not understanding the battles that were being waged.

It's all in the old book. The one with the padded worn out cloth cover and failing binding. It contains photos of the ancestors who migrated to america in the 1800s and their children. It also contains two pictures of two people they left behind. Their stiff uniformed chests blinged with medals. It was a long time ago, but the energy still plays.

On the morning of the conjunction, I was woke up to the sound of the message being left by one of the mars conjunct saturn sibs. She had crossed paths with the mars conjunct inlaw. They were civil. They both considered "the family." I could tell neither one had a clue as to the part they played in ripping it all apart.

I understand people want different things, or what others have, or to take others down, or just to war for wars sake. I may look stupid and you can call me dumb, but I'm not going back to that war. War is very hard on civilians. And besides Venus has a better idea than war.

Debbie Eastick

hahahahha, just realised i posted my comment on this on the wrong page, under the inbetween life chapters... can you tell its in my 12th house hahahahaha! Anyway...
Thank you for this post,as im not sure how i am going to get through this in a few days as its already affecting me and I am calming myself as much as possible. The mars conj saturn is conjunct my natal asc, which means its squaring natal saturn and sextile natal nth node, mars and uranus. Meanwhile venus is conjunct natal merc which is being opposed by pluto and squared by uranus. BML is also conjunct my vertex and mercury is within a degree of my MC…..this to me screams hide lol…yet it doesnt look like that is likely somehow…sux to be a 0′ cancer sun at the moment still there has to be a positive way for me to used it, its all about balance, remaining calm yet passionate and being different …..I also have asteroid karma conjunct natal "Divine Mother" in 10th house….oooooh a coming out party (not sexual orientation) but revealing myself? sheesh seems I am between crab shells so wheres a rock?

Now that it has passed, I can say that i had threatened panic attacks for the first time in years, but i did manage to keep them from overwhelming...phew



I have been looking for a job opportunity since past 6 months but not been able to find the change. Please let me know what is the most likely time period in future to achieve the same. My date of birth is 8th May 1964, Place of birth is Mumbai(India), and time of birth is 17:30 hrs. Will Mars-Saturn conjunction which has happened in the 8th place of my birth chart will affect my job search ?



I have Mars and saturn conjunction in 9th house for aries lagna with jupiter in 3 rd. House. What will be the effect of conjunction and tell me the dasas how they will be. My dob is march 1st 1990in vijayawada at 9:30 am.please reply me.

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