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« How Fate Relates To Free Will Pt. 1 - Does An Unconscious Person Have Choice, and How Much? | Main | The New Moon in Scorpio Pt. 1 - What’s Happening in November-December 2015 »

Comments

sue

Successful so far Those Powers That Be
To the huge hole in the Soul of humanity...
IMAGINE if you could eavesdrop on GOD and Mother Earths tea-time chats?

Sherry

What a beautiful and inspiring article!

Thank you, Robert.

Also, I like how clear and easy to understand you make concepts which previously had always dissolved into fuzz in my mind.

Nic

Brilliant two pieces. You shine through your astrological craft but you are also a master at explanining the deeper teachings.
With gratitude,
Blessings be to all

Ianna

I concur with the previous posters! :) Once again, perfectly timed, as well.

Thank you for the beautiful light that you shine.

Maggie

When one was a subject of "abusive behavior, obsolete responses, or willful misdirected actions". Grew through it. Transformed and opened to higher mind. But even if this one is very thankful for the given opportunity to become who is today, refuses to allow the "abuser" back, as recognizes patterns or want to avoid this patterns. Does that mean the one does not forgive and is operating from lower ego-will? Because it is already absolute concious ignorance. Or it is higher will?

Harak Gonz

Wow what insights! I am in tears

caliban

I tried to discuss the elephant in the room on a few ocassions when the abuser was being so blatantly abusive. And everyone else fell silent. Why is this being allowed? Why did they all go so silent. No sense trying to rationalize it I suppose. Makes sense. They must have understood that. Finally, my father tells me on his deathbed, I want you to know I just didn't want her to cry. Say what? Look at the mess she created I was thinking. Couldn't say it, let the guy die in peace and all. So I am on this job with this abusive person. People are crying. They go to voice their concern with the team leader. They all tell me the same thing. The TL says she's working on it, even though there is no sign of improvement. They also tell me every time the TL talks to her about it she cries. So she is really a very tender person under that rough exterior. Say what? The TL actually buys the tears? Oh well, works for some I guess. Lesson learned. And now I know, there is no rationalizing abuse. It's just nuts. Okay, ignorance. It doesn't have to make me nuts.

Robert

Hi all - Thanks for checking in with your comments.

Hi Maggie - I'm of the school that has come to accept that true forgiveness can only begin when the abuse stops. We are allowed to refuse abusive patterns that are corrosive to our personality and damages the ability of Soul to express itself in a natural way. To be able to choose a nonviolent response to abusive behavior and people is demonstrating one aspect of Spiritual Will. Spirit is free to express itself any way appropriate to that inspired impulse.

While we may be relatively unconscious about what is moving within us to choose a more loving way of life and relating, that ultimately has less to do with the object of our love and more about the love that we ARE, where we choose not break the link between pain and suffering.

Spiritual Will serves the greater good, while ego-will serves the separate self. Protecting oneself from abusive people and events would seem to serve a greater good.

Hi caliban - Because each chooses fear or courage in every such event, and many learn as children to shut up and bear the shame of silent approval of the abuse. Why approval? Because each opportunity we have to refuse abuse needs to be taken. As a child, I learned it was better to exercise courage and intelligence in standing up to bullies and take my lumps rather than hang my head in silent shame.

Sorry your father was a coward. I know well the shame many older ones have at their own abusive behavior, and their condoning of another's abusive behavior.

Crying is often a calculated defensive tool for abusers. They become practiced in whining, crying, and other forms of self-pity and feelings of being abused themselves. That deflects the focus away from their behavior, and seeks to place it on others to avoid addressing the problem. That's why all psychopaths and abusers point fingers at what everyone else is allegedly doing or not doing that makes them "just as bad" as the abuser. Classic blend of denial, displacement, and projection.

In my past, when someone in a work situation went into a pity party when it was time to discuss their behavior, I usually told them "I'm sorry you feel that way, but we really need to fix (...) so that (...) works better for the benefit of the (team, whole, friendship, relationship, etc.)" And then ask them what they think needs to be done. Pull them out of manipulated emotions and into the idea of what needs to be done for the benefit of the project.

I've also used the same tactic when dealing with TLs who weren't able to figure out how to deal with emotional manipulators. The best way to deal with these things is to remind the manipulator that "it's not about you. It's about the work." Keep the focus on the idea, redirecting them away from the power of manipulated emotions. As a former TL myself in various situations, I found that keeping it impersonal and focused on the work, the goal, or the good of the team always frustrated selfish, ego-driven manipulators.

caliban

What I am left with is the cutting off of people, keeping people apart. When I sense the isolating factor, that's when I panic.

The abusive child, she did something really really bad that ended even worse for another sibling. Like ended the sibling. In hindsight, it was a careful game my father played to protect his other children the best he could. The crying would have led to vengeance. You would never expect it from such a fine upstanding citizen as she.

He did make some hard held rules after the incident. I always wondered why he was so strict. You see the thing happened before I got here and was not made known to me until a few years ago. And then it all made sense. But the rules, well, they just might have saved my life. Still I can never trust just how far the abuser will go.

caliban

Robert, I want to thank you for this. It is up to the individual to wake up. Up to me. Up to the abuser. I can't change the abuser. I can't make the person understand how I feel and I can't even explain to the person why I can't be involved with her anymore. Someone mentioned forgiveness. I can't even do that. There is nothing to forgive. It was all destructive, negative, void. There is nothing there to forgive. It is a burden lifted. I got into thinking about all of it again today. Reasoning did not work. It was just crazy to me. And thinking about it, crazy making.

Skorp

I agree that abusees do not need to forgive.

In my opinion, abuse, as a dynamic embedded in human and organizational systems, gets passed down through generations via individuals. It thereby becomes the responsibility of said-abusive individuals to correct it.

When a person defies the call to end abusive patterns, then that person is complicit in the planetary madness perpetrated by humans. Why should I forgive the abusive individual? He/she has shirked his divine duty. While I may harbor anger and resentment towards the abuse and the its perpetrator, I work through it in my own way, "letting it go" every time it crops up in my psyche. But forgiving the abuser? What does that new age doublespeak even mean? I find the whole modern concept of "forgiving the abuser" to be just another clever and cunning lie, one that keeps people down, in their place, in servitude to abuse.

The only way to REALLY forgive so that a difference can finally be made in this mad mad world is for the whole community to come together and rehabilitate the abuser. I am not a community.

Therefore all you psychopaths out there who get a pass because you don't have a "conscience" can kiss my ass. And that goes doubly for those who supposedly do have a conscience!

Robert

Hi Caliban - That's why I'm clear that sometimes we must say goodbye to people who have become hurtful. I am writing a section of a new book that specifically deals with transcending childhood wounds. It's the blessing Saturn brings to all of us who strive to come out of victimization consciousness. We are never apart from our friends and always have the chance to make more friends.

Of course you're welcome. We all have to awaken to patterns of abuse, so we can consciously refuse to perpetuate those in the future. Crazy making is a clear sign that it's time to get some distance. And as I said, I believe that true forgiveness begins when we walk away from the abuse, and refuse to be abused any longer. They may or may not get whatever, but once we're at a distance from the sources of abuse, we are free to let it all go without reproach or recrimination. Blessings, walk on, move into a better future of our choosing, and learn from the experience.

Hi Skorp - I agree that those who learn patterns perpetuate those patterns until they choose new ones. Most abusers were abused. That doesn't excuse the abuse, but at least we're clear it's pretty much a learned behavior. Of course, there are psychopaths out there, and we must learn to spot them and avoid any contact with them to the degree that's possible.

That's why true forgiveness isn't about them, it's about us choosing to walk on and free ourselves from the abuser, the abuse, and even the parts of us that led us to that situation to begin with, as well as the parts of us that chose to stay in that situation for as long as we did. Forgiveness begins at home, when we see a truth and know it's time to claim our freedom not to be abused.

As for rehabilitating the abuser, well, that's only possible to the degree that the abuser cooperates in the cure. The Prime Directive and all that. If someone chooses to remain deliberately and willfully ignorant when they see a better, kinder way to be, then they cannot be rehabilitated, and we must put distance between us and them.

Most psychopaths are very unstable, self-serving, and dangerous. They don't "get a pass," but we indulge them at our risk. And while they do ultimately have a conscience, they tend not to listen to it, so it doesn't factor into their behavior. Mostly it's their delusional desire mind and limbic system that dominate their choices, which is why they are somewhat indifferent to the effect of their behavior on others, unless they take pleasure from the strong emotions aroused by the abuse. Again, very dangerous people. Keep them at a distance and have nothing to do with them.

caliban

The abuser people are so good at it. Good at getting back in. It's what they do. The motis operandis. Am experiencing futile attempts at this time. At least I can see it for what it is. I would like to not have contact with any more abusers. I suppose my hope is that clearing this biggy from my life (invader in personal day to day life), seeing it for what it is, would clear my space of that element. I need to be able to identify them sooner elsewise. There is really only myself to forgive for putting up with it out of some sort of weird familial 'obligation' principle.

caliban

And Skorp, I do appreciate the kiss my ass comment. People continually make excuses for them.

Maggie

Last week, at the time when I was writing a reply to the thread seems the grand irrationality, scorpio new moon or God knows what turned the switch on and all lunatics (that's my own term for "abusers") were at once activated. Plus I woke up with a stolen bike. The fact is, I stayed totally detached and unemotional. None of the deeds touched me. And I knew the last door was closed. But! I find kind of irritating that would appear people who blame the decision the "abuser/s" to be avoided and cut off. They would insist the peace between all to be restored because we're blood and blood has to be accepted as it is and all destructive behavior, envy and negativity forgiven. Peace? I'm in absolute peace. What I learned is that blood does not mean anything and learned who is my real family. All the irrational events from last week showed that abuse can come in different forms. Even in the form of "love".
Now I read Caliban saying "the abuser people are so good at that. Good at getting back" Yes! I don't understand this obsession to return to your life. And are so good getting dry out of the self created mess. Clean and shiny as an Angels. While everyone else is the monster. :)

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